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SharkTits

Discussion in 'SDT Requests' started by kunderthunt, Mar 6, 2015.

  1. kunderthunt

    kunderthunt Potential Patron

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    So, I know this is a strange fetish, but I'm really, REALLY into Shark Tits and I've been searching the internet for the better part of 6 hours to no avail, just some really repetitive .swf files and I've been a member here for something like a year, without making a contribution so if you guys could do me a favor and point me in the direction of how to make .swf files that'd be much appreciated, also if you feel like it after reading this long ass post, could you possibly find it in your hearts to make these into .swf files:
     
  2. sby

    sby Club Regular Content Creator

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    surprisingly, this isn't the weirdest request i have seen
     
  3. Nigida

    Nigida Casual Client

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    Not that weird indeed. I ask myself though, what makes tits on a shark "shark tits"? I mean, most of these look like ordinary drawn breasts. Some of them have tigerstripe skin patterns which partly cover the breasts. That would be a really nice thing to have.

    Also, sharks are beautiful creatures, yes.
     
  4. kunderthunt

    kunderthunt Potential Patron

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    sby, so do you have any pointers on where to go for the .swf file creator thing? I'm really not even sure what to call it
     
  5. stuntcock

    stuntcock Club Regular Staff Member Moderator

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    You can create code mods (which alter the game's logic, physics, size ranges, etc) using FlashDevelop. Knowledge of ActionScript is required, but it's a very permissive language which is easy to learn (mainly because there are so many tutorials and code samples available).

    If you actually want to create new art assets for the game, then you need Flash Professional which is licensed software and is moderately expensive.

    This particular modding task would probably require both new artwork and ActionScript code. For example: if you draw a dorsal fin, then you need to tell the game how it's connected to the torso and which layer it appears on (e.g. "in front of the left arm, but behind the right arm and the dangling ponytail"). This is achieved by including a few special declarations in your ActionScript code; these are intercepted by the Loader and used to assemble the gameplay scene.

    If you don't want to spend money on a silly porn hobby project, then there are a few options:
    • simple body-coloration can be done natively in SDT without any special mods or tools. If you just want to see some purple tits then go twiddle with the HSLC sliders.
    • raster hairstyles don't require Flash; you can create and share them as PNG files. This approach doesn't allow you to change the shape of the body (e.g. gills, fins, and tail) or the appearance of the skin (e.g. scales, tiger stripes). But it would allow you to create hairstyles which conceal the human ears and which show "shark ears" poking upwards.
    • you can complete many of the artwork tasks (such as vector tracing and shading) using free tools (e.g. Inkscape). Then you post the vector files in your Request thread and invite modders to assemble the pieces in Flash and upload an SWF.
    • if you've completed the necessary artwork but nobody volunteers to assist, then you can download a Trial version of Flash Pro. The trial is time-limited, so it's a good idea to have your artwork stuff sorted out beforehand.

    Caution/caveat: we can assemble most of the "pieces" of a sharkgirl (e.g. digitigrade legs, clawed+webbed fingers, fins and tail, countershaded torso) into an SWF mod file without too much trouble -- assuming that someone is willing to draw or trace the artwork. However, the behaviour of the mouth is finely-tuned because it's involved in many gameplay activities (talking, licking, spitting, gagging, penetration, etc). If we replace the human nose and jaw with a shark snout then it would be very tricky to get it to animate convincingly -- in the worst case, we'd need to duplicate the fine-tuning work that was done for the original mouth! There are also complications specific to the sharkgirl: her protruding snout may clip into his pelvis during deepthroating, her jaw may not fully close around his penis (or the opposite - it may close too far and seem to bite into the penis) do we need to remove her tongue for the sake of verisimilitude?. And we haven't even dealt with the question of TEETH. You might need to accept a shark-girl whose head shape is basically humanoid (maybe with a redesigned nose, as is used by the pony mods).



    Your reference images are okay (although they show too much variation and not enough side-views). But what we really need to know is how much of the sharkgirl body do you expect to see in the mod? (e.g. can we literally just create a set of "shark tits" or do we need to include reshaped eyes and breath-animated gills and prehensile tails and all that) and how much time are you willing to commit?
     
  6. kunderthunt

    kunderthunt Potential Patron

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    a lot of what you said makes sense, but in all reality, all I really want is the tail dorsal fin and legs (and of course the colors) but I'm really not too concerned about the mouth and thanks for the tip about the programs required
     
  7. kunderthunt

    kunderthunt Potential Patron

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    okay, now I have adobe flash professional, now what?
     
  8. kunderthunt

    kunderthunt Potential Patron

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    sorry, I didn't read the last part of your post stuntcock, anyways no you don't need to make breath animated gills and the more I think about it it would be pretty hot to have the shark snout/muzzle as well, and the prehensile tail too, and I have virtually unlimited free time. but I'm really not sure HOW to animate stuff in AFP, now that I have it; I've looked at the source code and I honestly have no idea what the hell I'm looking at. Are the mods written inside SDT or outside in a separate program, any help would be apprecited
     
  9. stuntcock

    stuntcock Club Regular Staff Member Moderator

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    I'm not interested in working on the snout and I don't want you to get your hopes up. It promises to be a big pile of fine-tuned literals, additional drawing layers (which will causes potential conflicts with fancy hairstyles, various clothing mods, and with animtools), and anatomical proxies (for instance: moving the "hinge point" of the jaw, adding stretchable cheeks along the posterior section of the jaw, writing new logic for speech and new geometry for spit, etc).

    #1: The work itself promises to be both difficult and tedious.

    Little of this work would be directly reusable (e.g. for a catgirl face or ponygirl face or whatever) because the coding would be tightly coupled to the dimensions of the sharkgirl-snout artwork.

    #2: The work doesn't usefully expand the SDT modding codebase or offer much to the SDT community.

    And, at the end of the day, it would still look silly because the snout isn't physically compatible with deepthroating -- she's going to bonk into his pubis before he hits her tonsils. And we'll need to either remove the teeth (which subtracts from characterization) or cringe whenever her mouth closes around his penis.

    #3: The end result probably would probably include visual flaws which would cause the modder to regret the time and effort spent on the project.

    The third point is debatable - feel free to post additional reference images which depict a sharkgirl performing fellatio. Or even side-views of a sharkgirl talking, eating, etc in a way that suggests the jaw ought to be able to comfortably accommodate a penis. I'm willing to be proven wrong on this point.

    The second point is relevant for many modders (who try to focus their efforts on popular requests) but you can freely ignore it. If you're really into sharkgirls, and you're willing to spend your own time on the project, then you can ignore the fact that most SDT players would prefer to see anime characters (or movie stars or whatever).

    But the first point still stands. The work involved in rigging and animating this thing will be technically-challenging. Veteran modders can offer technical support but they probably won't be willing to do the work for you (because of point #2). You'll need to learn ActionScript, and then learn the esoterica of SDT modding (there are a few tutorials, but much of it comes from reading through decompiled SWFs and sparsely-documented mod code), and then go beyond the existing codebase to build something new. Even if you have unlimited free time, this isn't a good way to spend it -- there's a major risk that you'll simply get frustrated and give up.

    Note: learning ActionScript is a good thing. But it's better to learn it in the context of a modest "hello world" project which you can actually complete.

    I'm willing to help you with this one. We can setup a simple animation loop in which the tail-base wiggles back and forth. The distal portion of the tail can be rigged as a semi-rigid physics object so that it will mimic the motion of the tail-base in a delayed fashion. If the tail-base wags lazily back and forth then the tail-tip will trace out a sinuous curve; if the tail-base makes harsh or rapid movements then the tail-tip will exaggerate them - flicking or whipsawing back and forth. Because the motion is physics-based it will exhibit chaotic interference -- we can give the tail-base a very simple 1-second animation loop, yet the tail-tip will move unpredictably (which is good, because a repeating pattern attracts the eye and annoys viewers).

    Once we have a basic proof-of-concept implementation, I can post some animation samples (and the WIP version of the SWF) and we can decide how to proceed:
    • creating a longer or more complex animation pattern (or possibly a set of different animations based on the girl's mood)
    • scene composition. We can cause the tail to rest against the floor, or we can allow it to fall through the floor (e.g. because she's kneeling at the edge of a pool and splashing her tail in the water?). Or we can curve the tail-base upwards so that the tailtip tends to hover the in the air behind the girl (or above her head).
    • physics tweaks. Experimenting with different levels of mass, ridigity, etc... in order to make the animation more convincing (or more dynamic, or less distracting, etc).

    First step: we need artwork. Find a really good side-view reference of a sharkgirl tail (which has the "correct" set of fins, coloration, scale details, etc). Trace it and then upload your work in or .FLA or .SVG format. Don't worry about getting it to fit and align perfectly with the SDT reference body; I'll take care of that.

    Mods are created in Flash. The SDT game (more accurately: Loader.swf) is used to view the results - to determine whether things show up correctly, whether they animate and scale properly, whether your mod is compatible with others, etc...

    If you want to create mods then I'd suggest reading the tutorials, especially this one. It's concerned with clothing, but the same techniques are used for body/skin modding. And you'll need to acquire some general familiarity with the working environment and the drawing tools; the tutorial will help. As an initial project, I'd suggest trying to draw/trace a shark-skin pattern onto one of the reference bodyparts (e.g. the right thigh). Let me know if you're having trouble getting your work to show up in-game.

    Once you're comfortable with that, we can move onto more complex stuff - such as adding fins and incorporating them into the game's visual hierarchy, or replacing the feet.

    Please don't feel rushed on the "tail" task. I don't expect you to start work on it immediately; spend some time messing around in Flash and drawing/tracing simple stuff. Feel free to post WIP screenshots if you run into trouble or need feedback.
     
  10. Dyxid

    Dyxid Avid Affiliate

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    Gill slits I guess? Depending on the artist and how they want to anatomy that day, they might draw them in a place that qualifies as sharky enough tits. (Though I don't think any of the images provided have any gill slits on 'em.)
     
  11. kunderthunt

    kunderthunt Potential Patron

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    alright stuntcock I'm really fucking lost here. I have no idea what the hell I'm doing, and I've looked up how-to videos, and I really don't know what I'm doing anymore. I've even gotten so damn frustrated that I contemplated throwing my computer out a window... Help, what am I doing? and why am I doing it wrong?
     
  12. stuntcock

    stuntcock Club Regular Staff Member Moderator

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    Ah, I've seen that problem before. You need to click your heels together three times; that'll invert the polarity of the tachyon matrix and evict the gremlins from the processor core. ::)

    I can't help troubleshoot a problem unless you give me some kind of clue as to where the problem is occuring. Installing the Flash software? Downloading the SDT templates? Importing reference images onto the canvas? Drawing shapes? Fine-tuning paths? Creating keyframes? Establishing hints for shape tweens? Identifying and resolving ActionScript compilation errors? Compiling the result and loading it into SDT? Debugging inter-mod conflicts and runtime exceptions which occur in Flash Player?



    If you're completely new to computer programming then this is the wrong way to learn it. There's an important feature called "stepthrough debugging" which allows you to slow down a computer program and inspect its behaviour one-line-at-a-time. This isn't available for SDT modding -- when something goes wrong, the application will just continue running and an "error state" may be visible for only a fraction of a second. Hence, SDT mods tend to either work fully or not at all, and it can be very frustrating to troubleshoot why a mod is not working.



    I suggest that you take a break from Flash. Visit your favourite imageboard and find some more side-view reference shots of sharkgirls (we do not have enough imagery to finish this project as-is). Partial views are okay - if an image shows a good profile of the face (or arm, etc) then it doesn't matter that the torso is drawn obliquely. While you're browsing through images, put some thought into anatomy and design:
    • how do you imagine this sharkgirl moving?
    • how is it similar to (or different from) motion and character behaviour that you're seen in SDT?
    • which aspects of this sharkgirl's character design are the most important? (e.g. body proportions, coloration, dialog/attitude, etc)
    • assuming that we can't include a prominent snout, which other aspects of the visual design should we emphasive (or downplay) in order to recreate the overall "feel" of the character? For example: could longer ears compensate for the missing snout, or would they "backfire" by calling attention to its absence?
    • what sort of clothing might she wear? do we need to constrain/adjust the anatomy (e.g. dorsal fin) in order to leave room for straps, belts, etc...?
    • how do you reconcile the character's tough/fearsome appearance with her apparently-submissive role in the SDT sex scene? What techniques could we use to re-assert her personality?
    • what should her tail be doing during the scene? hovering playfully above/behind her? lashing back and forth in irritation? stretched out behind her as a balance/counterweight? curved into the foreground (or background) so that it rests alongside her leg?
    You don't need to answer these questions right away (or at all) but they may help you to provide feedback and suggestions in the future (e.g. when we're looking at tail-animation samples).

    Remember that we'll also need to find compatible hairstyles -- something which covers the human ears and leaves room for sharkgirl ears. Reference images are fine, but try searching through SDT mods as well. You may find a different-species mod (e.g. elf or dranei) which can be quickly adapted/recoloured to suit a sharkgirl.

    Try to load up one of your sharkgirl reference images into Inkscape and trace some of the lines. The controls and tools aren't identical to those in Flash, but they're similar enough that you'll gain useful experience. This work isn't especially challenging (it's a backwards version of the child's "connect the dots" game); when you've learned how to manipulate paths, you'll quickly find it boring and tedious. It gets interesting when lines start to converge and intersect; you'll need to separate your work into layers in order to keep it organized (there are lots of tutorial resources on this topic).

    Once you're comfortable with lines, play around with fills and gradients. Try to mimic the color patterns that you see in the reference image (e.g. light countershading on the belly; leopard spots on the outer thigh). Then try to draw different fills (preferably on a new layer) to create a different visual effect (e.g. tigershark). Try not to feel frustrated if the vector-tracing looks crude when compared to the reference image -- the artist who drew the original image has been refining his skills for years. Just keep at it, and remember that you can always zoom-in and add fine details to your drawing. The key question in vector tracing is "how much visual fidelity do you want VS how much time are you willing to spend on it?"

    Once you've made some progress on a partial trace (e.g. of a thigh, or a forearm, or a dorsal fin), then post a screenshot of it and let us know about any challenges or uncertainties you've been running into. We'll provide feedback and suggestions. When you're satisfied with the trace, upload the vector file. I can walk you though the process of importing it into Flash, compiling it, and loading it in-game. If you still feel overwhelmed by Flash then I can import the vectors, rig them to the body, and send back the FLA file -- it may be easier for you to "expand" a working file instead of trying to build a new one from scratch.

    If you're still not comfortable with the Flash work at that point, then you may be able to keep the project alive by submitting vector artwork - myself or another SDT modder can fit your designs onto the SDT body and send back SWF files. You can then playtest them and ask for adjustments (e.g. thicker tail, longer earfins, etc).

    As long as you're willing to keep drawing, we can keep modding. Example: SDT has four built-in skin tone settings. We could "hijack" these buttons, enabling users to switch in-game between different sharkgirl designs (e.g. tiger-striped, great white, etc) without the need to juggle a bunch of different SWF files.
     
  13. kunderthunt

    kunderthunt Potential Patron

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    Thanks for the info, I can try and find some good profiles
     
  14. kunderthunt

    kunderthunt Potential Patron

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    Alright, so I've imported the picture (^^^) up there to my drawing area, but I can't find the layer button, and I've been trying to trace this picture but none of the tools are working (something about being a bitmap) and when I did get it to trace that one time I tried using the bone tool in the tail it said "it's too complex" what kind of shit is that? I'm really trying to contribute to this community. So if anyone can please link me a video for CS5.5 that would be greatly appreciated
     
  15. stuntcock

    stuntcock Club Regular Staff Member Moderator

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    You're running a newer version of Flash than I am, so I may not be able to offer direct troubleshooting support. I think that the modding tutorial uses CS5.5, so take a look through that. If you're really stuck then post a screenshot of your working environment and I'll see whether there are any obvious problems with the toolbars or whatever.
    It sounds as though you're trying to use an auto-trace function - the software will search for "edges" (discontinuities in colour or brightness) in the image and generate lines along those edges. Obviously, this is much faster than tracing each line by hand.

    Unfortunately, it's not always a good option for SDT modding. Auto-traced vectors tends to be much more complex/intricate then hand-traced ones, because the computer picks up on "irrelevant" minor details in the image (whereas the human skips them due to laziness). This is problematic because when we import a highly-detailed vector into the SDT game, the framerate will suffer. It's not a huge problem for a small mod (e.g. a pair of shoes) but for a whole-body replacement mod we must be mindful of our "FPS budget."

    Animated components (such as swaying hair or a moving tail) are already quite resource-intensive, so we really can't afford to rely on auto-tracing here. Feel free to experiment with this feature (e.g. to compare your hand-traced work against it) but be aware that I'm not going to put in the effort to rig and animate something if I believe that it will be unusable as an actual mod (due to 5 FPS performance). Also - I'd prefer not to put hours of my time into something which was generated in 5 seconds via auto-trace. Quid pro quo.

    More importantly - it would be a good idea to do some manual trace-and-fill work because it will help you to understand the tools and concepts involved in Flash animation and Flash gameplay.
    You're jumping ahead :)

    What you're trying to do (maybe without realizing it) is to establish an armature -- an invisible endoskeleton with well-defined hinge points, to which the visible stuff (scales, fins, clothes, breasts, etc) would be attached. This is a handy technique because -- as an animator -- you don't need to actually decide how each patch of skin will curve or twist. You simply guide the armature into an appropriate shape, and Flash will figure out the rest.

    We can't use the Bone technique for this project. It's a relatively-new feature in Flash, and the SDT code hasn't been (and probably never will be) updated to incorporate it. We use a similar technique, albeit one which is more arcane and less powerful.

    Also - SDT has a lot of built-in animation details (such as breast bouncing, diaphragm heaving, cheek bulging, etc) which aren't amenable to Bone techniques. When your animation model is a rigid skeleton, it has difficulty in dealing with the "soft parts" of anatomy. Instead, the relevant portions of the scene are subjected to direct matrix transformations which completely disregard concepts such as "well defined hinge point" "zones of influence" and "the ability to preview and tweak a whole-body animations in Flash." The physics-based animation is even weirder, because it responds to configuration parameters (e.g. adjustable gravity) which are entirely separate from the keyframes and tweens that Flash understands.

    tl;dr - forget about bones, forget about auto-tracing. Just import a reference image onto the canvas (File > Import), press P for the Path tool, and start scribbling on it. Then press C for the conversion tool and try to drag-drop a few of your anchor points (if you're familiar with 3d modeling then feel free to call them "vertices"). Once you've figured out how to adjust the curvature of the paths (to create broader or narrower arcs), try to accurately trace along a few of the outlines and edges of your reference image. Get a feel for the tools. And report back when you're ready to proceed further (or you run into a roadblock).
     
  16. kunderthunt

    kunderthunt Potential Patron

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    Well, when I press the 'P' key it gives me the pen tool and I can do that, but I still can't trace the damn image. But other than that, I'm ready to proceed forwards... If we can. (?)
     
  17. kunderthunt

    kunderthunt Potential Patron

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    Nevermind I figured it out. It was tracing under the .png
     
  18. kunderthunt

    kunderthunt Potential Patron

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    Here ya go I don't think I can do any better than this
     
  19. kunderthunt

    kunderthunt Potential Patron

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    So, what do I do with it now? (or we)?
     
  20. kunderthunt

    kunderthunt Potential Patron

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    Well, now that I know what I'm doing this is super easy ;D