SDT Loader question (4 Viewers)

Slingerbult

Content Creator
Joined
Sep 15, 2012
Possible misfeature. The text may be bad for immersion, but it's still important information. Modders rely on user-reported errors (i.e. red text) in order to troubleshoot problems.
The scope of such a mod would be to use it in pre-bundled projects that are ready for consumtion and already tested. I'm not saying it should be a standard feature of the loader anymore, now that I understand what INIT can do. :)

The total concealment of any "progress indicator" stuff might also confuse newbies. Someone might simply assume that the game has crashed after watching a black screen for twenty seconds, and so they'd close the Flash Player window. Then they start it up again and the same thing happens.
Indeed, so that's why I'm suggesting a black screen as default to ship with such a mod, but a user can change it to a more instructive start screen which would be especially important if the bundle contains many mods or clothes to load. Default black is for short load times.

That sounds effective - but a cheaper solution may exist. If you simply load a position file which places the characters several meters apart, then movement could probably be allowed because it's mostly harmless (and won't generate any SFX).
Yeah but that position file would only load when dialogues load and then it's already too late.

Another possible approach would be to "pause" the dialogue engine while g.sceneLayer.visible is false
Same problem. Though I might convince pim to make such a variable readable in dialogue scripts, I would still have to wait until all the mods had loaded for the dialogue itself to load. So it seems better IMO to make this feature a mod in its own right, that you place at the top of the mod loading list. I'm just looking for a way to get rid of it once it's no longer of use.

Anyway, I don't wish to derail this thread any further as this is clearly not a loader feature. Thanks for your help.
 

stuntcock

Content Creator
Joined
Jun 5, 2012
The scope of such a mod would be to use it in pre-bundled projects that are ready for consumtion and already tested.
Please don't underestimate users' ability to screw things up, even if those things have been extensively tested.

Remember that sby includes a prominent "click here to start the game" shortcut in his Loader pack. Yet we still see people who try to open the thing in their web browser and then complain when it doesn't work. Or people who double-click SDT.swf and wonder why all of the fancy features are missing. Or people who try to double-click Loader.swf without actually extracting the ZIP file.

Yeah but that position file would only load when dialogues load and then it's already too late.
You'd specify the characters_separated.txt position as the default position for animtools. Then you'd load actual positions via dialogue scripting.

It would be very annoying for anyone who tries to use your Loader pack as their "casual play, customized and personalized" SDT instance. But if we assume that they're using it as-is and not tinkering with it, then the weird default position shouldn't bother them.
 

DrZombi

Content Creator
Joined
Jul 10, 2016
I've had the same kind of thoughts concerning the black screen behind which you set up everything, and that's why all my dialogues are issued from the same template where I load a first dialogue, just to load mods and hair, and bg behind a DA [FLASH]. If you have a look at my dialogues, you'll see that I've adressed a lot of the problems you name, inside the dialogues themselves. For example, I use a Shock.txt animtools position where the girl just cannot interact with the penis (and behind the curtain, nobody knows it), and switch back to the position I want before the [END_FLASH]. I also use a "set" to replenish her breath at start so that she does not begin the dialogue as if she just ran a marathon.

Also, MoreTriggers provides a lot of helpful things to make a dialogue more immersive, like Splashscreens (which if I'm not mistaken should be over displayed over the green/red texts top right), Overlays (which let the dialogues visible), possibility to add beginning or ending credits.
And overlays and credits have a specific fallback line type.

I personnally did not try (and won't) to make everything triggable right from the launch of SDT, for those reasons:

1) I really love SDT (and the Loader), for its concept, and what it can offer to people who want to dive a little bit into it. I was so amazed when I discovered each and every possibility. OMG I can add customized hair & clothes !I OMG I can change her mood ! OMG I can load customized dialogues ! OMG there is a dedicated forum with a lot of mods !!! I think that the great thing with SDT is its community and everything you can do with it when you know how to play with this wonderful sandbox. And I prefer 1000 times more creating complex charfolders in pre-packaged bundles than trying to give people a "program" which would totally run with SDT and the Loader under the hood but totally hides it to the user. It's a little bit like open licencing: if you use SDT, you have to credit it in some way and not taking it for yourself and distribute complete programs which takes advantage of it but which does not allow the player to really use the underlying SDT. Well, this is beginning to get philosophical but I think everyone got the idea. I really prefer to give players the envy to learn a little bit about how to use SDT because this is the way to go to build a strong community. If I've had discovered myself SDT through I don't know, let's say for example WeeWillie's Trials of the Sorceress (which is an excellent char folder), but with the kind of "locking" system that you're speaking of, I may never have known about this forum at all and what is possible to do with SDT and you would never had MoreTriggers. Giving people the envy to give life to their own fantasies is the key to make this community grow and have more mods and modders in the future. And this is a fucking long 1) :grin:

2) Trying to use the $RESET$ or the $INIT$ charfolders as real char folders with dialogues, bg, hair, etc, is not really a good idea IMHO. And yes, it will somehow kill the possibility for people to use your package outside of your pre-defined char folders. And YES, you will definitely always have some users who will find a way to fuck things up anyway :grin:

3) Stuntcock is just totally right that trying to hide the moreclothing loading will confuse new players who will just think that this shit does not work ! And we don't want that ! :smile:
 

Slingerbult

Content Creator
Joined
Sep 15, 2012
You'd specify the characters_separated.txt position as the default position for animtools. Then you'd load actual positions via dialogue scripting.
OK, didn't know you could specify a starting position for animtools, but then there's still the issue of audiovisually hiding the mod loading.

DrZombi DrZombi Thank you for your thoughts on this.

1) I don't think "insta-load" bundles in any way detracts from SDT proper or its community. I'm not talking about taking away the options menu or anything - just what happens on launch. You can still select a character folder or whatever, it just allows the developer to cherry pick one folder as the starting default rather than having nothing or something random as the default.

2) I'm not saying it's fuck-up proof, but the more you automate the easier it gets. Of course it can still go wrong, but that doesn't mean it's bad to try and make it as smooth as possible. Also, bundles even in their present form aren't really good for general SDT use/exploration/development but I don't really care as I assume those that download such bundles want to play that specific dialogue project.

3) First time I saw moreclothing load I was confused as fuck myself - I think a screen explaining what's going on is much more helpful ("The game is loading... Your progress will be saved automatically and you can restart from the beginning by accessing a reset menu, if you hold the mouse button and pull the female character up").
 

DrZombi

Content Creator
Joined
Jul 10, 2016
OK, didn't know you could specify a starting position for animtools, but then there's still the issue of audiovisually hiding the mod loading.

DrZombi DrZombi Thank you for your thoughts on this.

1) I don't think "insta-load" bundles in any way detracts from SDT proper or its community. I'm not talking about taking away the options menu or anything - just what happens on launch. You can still select a character folder or whatever, it just allows the developer to cherry pick one folder as the starting default rather than having nothing or something random as the default.

2) I'm not saying it's fuck-up proof, but the more you automate the easier it gets. Of course it can still go wrong, but that doesn't mean it's bad to try and make it as smooth as possible. Also, bundles even in their present form aren't really good for general SDT use/exploration/development but I don't really care as I assume those that download such bundles want to play that specific dialogue project.

3) First time I saw moreclothing load I was confused as fuck myself - I think a screen explaining what's going on is much more helpful ("The game is loading... Your progress will be saved automatically and you can restart from the beginning by accessing a reset menu, if you hold the mouse button and pull the female character up").

Did you try something like this ?

-> $INIT$ Folder -> Mods.txt. Just load DA and MT (they both load pretty quickly), and have a Dialogue.txt which immediately launches my Splashscreen trigger. With the timer, the fallback line and some variables, you can even chain the screens to show detailed instructions. Then use the dialogue to [LOAD_MOD] all the other mods on your Mods.txt list.

Does it work as intended ? If not, what are the problems ? (I expect some mods to not like the DA [LOAD_MOD]).
In that case, I could maybe put up a trigger which launches the loading of a specified char folder. That could make more sense than using the $INIT$ folder as a real char folder. But I don't even know if I can do this, so just an idea for now.

What do you think ?

P.S: (Yes, I still have a tab opened on your Hunie post but I want to take the time to review each sound you proposed, classify them and return to you with a real answer which honors your search :grin:) And I lack that much time right now :frown:
But I can tell you that it will be an answer which will look like a proposed list of triggers for the sounds for which it seems feasible and interesting with a conditition to do it that I want each trigger to be available for each girl, so if you want to take some time to review and search the sound sfrom the 11 other girls, you can do it, I swear you won't do this in vain.
 

Slingerbult

Content Creator
Joined
Sep 15, 2012
Did you try something like this ?

Yes and no. First I contemplated pretty much the exact same approach you suggested, but there's something about the idea of loading several mods in sequence with LOAD_MOD, including huge ones like moreClothing, that makes me cringe. It might work though, but I opted for another approach.

This morning I've been improving my Loader-fu a bit. If you put a black BG.png and a charcode that makes the characters jet black in $INIT$, the Loader opens with a black screen! You still hear eerie panting sounds, so I bothered modGuy if he ever thought about adding a starting volume setting to the Loader and perhaps some buttons that increase or decrease the flash player volume. Not a biggie though. Especially since you could probably use clever mod ordering (including autoclosemouth) to quickly pull the lovers wide apart, close her mouth, play some background music or whatever. I think the end result will be nice.

TL;DR: I think I can mange with what is already "there" without having to abuse LOAD_MOD and get an even better result despite. The Loader is a powerful tool and in the long run it's better if I learn to use it to full potential rather than cry for a mod :D I will tinker with this during the day and see how far I can take it. Figuring out the order in which everything takes place is key.

11 other girls
ELEVEN?! I thought there were 8 girls total + that love faerie. Yeah, so I reckon there won't be that many triggers that will work for all voices, but sounds of joy, laughter and giggles are at the top of my list. I'll definetely put more work into those files though and it helps to know what I'm looking for when I have your trigger suggestions to go by.
 

DrZombi

Content Creator
Joined
Jul 10, 2016
there"s something about the idea of loading several mods in sequence with LOAD_MOD, including huge ones like moreClothing, that makes me cringe.

I was not totally optimistic about that solution too :tongue:

I think the end result will be nice.

I look forward to seeing the result. I'm a bit curious :smile:

The Loader is a powerful tool and in the long run it's better if I learn to use it to full potential rather than cry for a mod :D [...] Figuring out the order in which everything takes place is key.

You got it :smile:

ELEVEN?! I thought there were 8 girls total + that love faerie. Yeah, so I reckon there won't be that many triggers that will work for all voices, but sounds of joy, laughter and giggles are at the top of my list. I'll definetely put more work into those files though and it helps to know what I'm looking for when I have your trigger suggestions to go by.

Yep, Celeste, Venus and Momo are secret characters that need to be unlocked specifically during the game.
As long as we stick to basic insti... basic emotions, we should be able to find them for each girl. I'll review all your findings, classify them in an excel spreadsheet and we'll see better what can be done :smile:
 

Rudgar

Content Creator
Joined
Nov 18, 2016
Please don't underestimate users' ability to screw things up, even if those things have been extensively tested.
Remember that sby includes a prominent "click here to start the game" shortcut in his Loader pack. Yet we still see people who try to open the thing in their web browser and then complain when it doesn't work. Or people who double-click SDT.swf and wonder why all of the fancy features are missing. Or people who try to double-click Loader.swf without actually extracting the ZIP file.
Software development is a competition between software developers who work hard on software that is more and more idiot-proof and the universe that produces more and more idiotic users.
universe is leading.
 

crosswarrior24

Potential Patron
Joined
Aug 12, 2016
i have a question about this mod: breastexpansionplusV2_5, i want to make it so that the belly doesn't shrink but for some reason it keeps shrinking, what do i need to do in order to make it stop shrinking?
 

sby

Content Creator
Coder
Joined
Sep 11, 2012
shrinking and growing based on cum inside her. here are some settings you might be interested in setting:
autoshrink=0
pukeamt=0
 

6H087

Potential Patron
Joined
May 8, 2015
The last time the "swfMod:Folder/Folder/----.swf" code worked was in v5.41a. You might do something about that, if you can. I'm really a rookie with this stuff. I want to learn to edit swf files, but I haven't really played with them much. Why doesn't this site have downloads for the programs that edit .swf files?
 

stuntcock

Content Creator
Joined
Jun 5, 2012
The last time the "swfMod:Folder/Folder/----.swf" code worked was in v5.41a.
Can you elaborate on this problem? Perhaps you could share an example file, or explain the process step-by-step so that we can reproduce the problem and study it.

There are several ways to activate a charCode (manually, via Character Folder activation, via dialogueActions scripting, inclusion in another SWF file via the charData field) - each of which carries potential conflicts or complications. There may also be peculiarities which apply to the specific SWF file that you've chosen (e.g. dependency on Loader mods which are missing, or risk of Overwrite from subsequently-loaded mods). It's complicated.

For example, I can load the following charCode snippet manually ... but it won't work when pasted into the Code.txt file of a Character Folder.
Code:
swfMod:./mods/widow/Widowmaker.swf;

(The following is opinion and ModGuy ModGuy is welcome to contradict me) I'd say that the "swfMod:" syntax should probably be avoided when possible. It disrupts the usual load-order and sometimes includes long filepaths. Hence it tends to be "brittle" and not especially conducive to file-sharing. If you can achieve the desired result by other means (e.g. Character Folders or moreClothing or SwitchSet) then I'd encourage you to do so.

I want to learn to edit swf files, but I haven't really played with them much.
It depends on what you mean.

If you want to grab a completed SWF file and tweak it (e.g. recoloring a few hair strands, or shortening a skirt for greater sex appeal) then you'll find that it's actually quite tricky. This sort of approach works well with some games -- for example, a noob can merge or manipulate Skyrim costumes in Blender (even if they've never touched the Creation Kit). SWF files are not intended for such manipulation, and you're likely to run into serious roadblocks.

If you want to learn Flash modding by dissecting and editing the work of other people then that's valid, but you should probably look for FLA source files instead of SWF files. For example: Dante has shared a huge library of FLA files. Modders occasionally provide download links alongside their compiled files (here's one of mine), but usually omit them in order to avoid silly questions ("Please help! Your FLA file doesn't work! How do I load it into the game?!"). If a modder is still active then they'll often be willing to share their source files (along with advice and assistance) if you simply ask. Most people are somewhat vain, and they're happy to see an "apprentice" express interest in their work :)

You can use decompilation in order to revert a SWF file into a usable FLA source. This will generally recover all of the vector-art assets and some of the AS3 script. Unfortunately you'll lose all of the structure (such as variable names, shape names, inline documentation, element hierarchies, etc) which makes the whole thing difficult to understand. You'll also lose any non-output elements, such as reference layers, template shapes, and usage notes or sketches. Hence, the resulting FLA file will be a poor learning resource and it won't help you to understand the Flash modding process.

Why doesn't this site have downloads for the programs that edit .swf files?
Because Undertow members haven't written any such programs, and we generally don't mirror anything without the author's consent.

Within the forum you can find a few mentions of JPEXS ffdec, which is the tool that I use when inspecting SWF files (for troubleshooting as well as modding purposes). Some modders employ FlashDevelop or Flash Builder. I tend to write code in a barebones text editor and then use the lightweight compiler. AdrianMcClean goes even further, demonstrating that it's possible to assemble custom graphics and custom code, via command-line tools, into a usable SWF file.

If you get in touch with a particular modder (e.g. to ask for source files or tutorial advice) then you're welcome to ask them about the tools or workspace which they use.
 
S

SereoSetham

I'm unable to get the loader to work. I'm on Windows 10... I don't know what could be wrong. Do I need anything aside from the loader?
 

Rudgar

Content Creator
Joined
Nov 18, 2016
Ahoy and welcome!
I'm unable to get the loader to work. I'm on Windows 10... I don't know what could be wrong. Do I need anything aside from the loader?
You can find this and some more maybe helpful links in the information tab of my profile page.

HTH - Hope That Helps

Regards, Me
 

stuntcock

Content Creator
Joined
Jun 5, 2012
the loader doesnt appear for me why?
We're happy to provide technical support, but you should try to give us at least a little bit of information (and/or screenshots). Imagine that you walked up to someone on the street and asked them "my car doesn't start why?"

If you mean that the Loader menus and features don't appear but the base game is playable, then that probably means that you're trying to launch the game in a web browser window. Please use the Adobe Flash Player projector instead.

If you mean that the download links for the Loader don't appear when you visit the Undertow website, then please ensure that you're properly signed in. Guests aren't able to download some files.

If you mean something else then please describe it in greater detail.
 

Cazadragonas

Potential Patron
Joined
Feb 12, 2016
hi, im read the FAQ but i cant use the Loader because i cant select the Flash player in the selection panel on "open with..." i have the Flash player, but simply, the icon dont appear in the selection panel... then... how can i open the loader.swf? thanks for the help...
 

stuntcock

Content Creator
Joined
Jun 5, 2012
hi, im read the FAQ but i cant use the Loader because i cant select the Flash player in the selection panel on "open with..." i have the Flash player, but simply, the icon dont appear in the selection panel... then... how can i open the loader.swf? thanks for the help...
Flash Player isn't "installed" on Windows; it doesn't add anything to your registry. You simply download a new executable file and then use it (or not) as you see fit.

When you choose "Open With" you should be presented with an option to choose another application. This item will usually appear at the bottom of the list; you might need to scroll down. You can then Browse for the folder in which you saved the Flash Player file, and finally choose the executable file itself (such as flashplayer_25_sa.exe).

---------------​

Alternatively, you can start the Flash Player (by double-clicking the flashplayer_25_sa.exe file). An empty Flash Player window will appear. You can choose File > Open (or press Ctrl+O) and then select the Loader.swf file by browsing. After doing this, Loader.swf will be added to the quick-select area of the File menu. During subsequent sessions you can omit the Browse step and run Loader.swf by selecting it from the File menu (or you can press Alt+F ... 1).

If you're using Windows 10 then you can drag-and-drop the Flash Player projector application onto your taskbar. Right-clicking the Flash Player icon in the taskbar will present a list recently-used SWF files, so you can choose Loader.swf from that list. The game will immediately startup after you do so.

---------------​

If you're still having trouble then you can use sby's Loader Pack instead. It provides a built-in copy of the Flash Player application, and a "Play SDT Loader" shortcut which you can simply double-click.
 

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