Discussion: SDT Overworld Mod (Casual) Project Y/N? See Description if interested in helping. (1 Viewer)

[Super18]

So I did a thing. Read past the lengthy introduction if you want to skip to the meat and potatoes.

Introduction;
So, I have had a habit of biting off more than I can chew in the past. And I haven't been on the site for years. I came back out of curiosity today and am glad to see improvements are still being made. What an amazing flashgame SDT actually is when you really think about it. Not many flashgames survived the Adobe onslaught. Now, I was intentionally not thinking about modding again. But seeing where we are, and how my original idea (although backlogged and planned very badly years ago when I was still very green) was kind of similar to what I'm gonna lay out here, it would be a waste to just never put it out there. Even if it is just a textual/conceptual proposition/idea. I'm not sure how much time I would like to spend, but I can see myself making casual contributions to this or at least keeping in touch to see some development journey emerge from all this if people would be so inclined to pick it up (with me, very humbly reflecting on my past attempt which developed the wrong way around I know now). Hence, me starting this discussion just to see what happens.
For a fan-project and a hommage to a long gone era of the early internet I wouldn't mind making some waves to draw out some bigger fish, so I decided to just drop an entire roadmap for what I think would be an awesome project on the table.
Knowing all the accumalated knowledge in guides available, and the degeneracy of the internet, as well as the protective nature of many to cherish lost/fading media and cult-classic/nostalgic gems, I can see it happen in at least one of the branching multiverses out there. I can't be the only one who thinks/hopes so. And yes, I still talk too much. :)

Description;
To create a foundational overworld for SDT as a template for anyone in the community willing to contribute and share in their decades of legacy tech knowhow and creative expertises and leave another little gem to compliment what is, and what was.

Features for v1.0 - To Build the 'Overworld System';

1. Global/Local Savestates (Keeping progress with stored (auto-)savegames is already accesible as a feature with DA)
2. Calender System (Either 'cyclical dates' and/or 'DAY# based progression to keep track off)
3. Clock System (Simplified 'Morning', 'Afternoon', 'Evening', 'Night' to accompany Backgrounds)
4. User Interface v1.0 (To keep track of DAY/TIME + Stamina initially, but eventually PC_Stats + Money as well in v2.0)
5. Locations/Worldmap (BG-/Dialogue Based Locations w/ Buttons for Movement and Location-specific Encounters)
6. NPC Spawn Randomizer for 'Generic Encounters' (Enumerated character presets to randomize girl encounters)
7. (!) The first Goal: v1.0 'Preset Dialogue Girl' for Dialogue builders to build off of and experiment with adding girls into the overworld.
   1. DAY/TIME Triggers/Variables for scripted dialogue encounters, to expand storytelling beyond single 'scenes'.
   2. Progression stored in Save States to keep track of 'community built dialogues' and create superficial immersion
   3. A 'preview' Story of scripted encounters with the 'Preset Dialogue Girl' to showcase all early features.

Features for v2.0 - To Build the 'Elementary Roleplay System';

1. Character Creation Screen (Template for starting 'Abilities', 'Stats', 'Traits/Passive (de-)buffs')
2. Ability System (Rudimentary Character Selection; NERD=INT Boost, THUG=STR Boost, JOCK=END Boost)
3. Stats System (Rudimentary stats to 'train' and keep track off, to trigger more 'diverse' dialogue requirements)
   1. STRength ((Base(ATK) + Dice(ATK)) - ((Base(DEF) + Dice(DEF)) = NPC_HP - Damage (Win = No Faint/Scripted Event)
   2. ENDurance (Base(END) = v2.0 Stamina, and also HP in Combat/Girl Encounters
   3. INTelligence ((Base(INT)( + Dice(INT))) - (Base(DEF)) = Succesfull Action required to engage 'Encountered Girl'.
   4. CHArisma (Base(CHA)) = Deficit to lower (Base(DEF)) and increases succesrate of action w/ 'Encountered Girl'
   5. Luck (Just a means to add some additional % trigger/variables to certain encounters etc.)
4. Traits System (Rudimentary 'Traits' to diversify roleplay and 'achieve' PC_Progression for some sense of Immersion)
   1. e.g. 'Virgin Passive' (lowers CHA for certain girls)
   2. e.g. 'Foccused Passive' (increases INT gained due to repeated daily training)
   3. etc. (Mainly to create a 'device' for storytelling at this point, but to be expanded upon in future updates)
5. User Interface v2.0 (To keep track of STR/END/INT/CHA/LCK and Money)
6. Preset Enemy Encounter (1 Simple example of how to add a combat encounter, plotdevice and reason for STR in v2.0)
7. Locations v2.0 (Add 'Training Buttons', 'Work Buttons', 'Shop Buttons', giving locations their generic purposes)
8. Dating System (Simple 'Talk', 'Flirt', 'Gift', 'Date', 'Sex' Options to unlock, and tracking basic 'Disposition' of girls)
   1. 'Talk' allows for buttonwise dialogue progressions and storytelling. Fase 1 in any Datesim :)
   2. 'Flirt' Some risk added w/ CHA/INT Dicerolls for better 'Disposition' progress than 'Talk'.
   3. 'Gift' Spend money for 'Disposition' on girls. The more girls on the map, the more money is needed. (Clothes?)
   4. 'Date' feature to utilize the DAY/TIME Calender feature, and open another layer of 'Dialogue' to Writers.
   5. 'Sex' Initiate the main Dialogue with Girls (meaning, finally girl touches penis lol, scripted offcourse)
9. PC_Progression Gameloop (Train= better Stats = better Job = better Pay = better Gifts = better Girl_Progression)
10. Add some new Locations
    1. e,g, 'Highschool' for Teacher job, 'University' for INT training
    2. e.g. 'Shop' for buying gifts (and perhaps already clothing, since it is kinda elementary to dress-up in SDT)
    3. e.g. 'Gym' for STR/END Training and Gym-instructor Job.
11. Adjust the 'Preset Dialogue Girl' Template to provide updated resource for Dialogue Writers.

Features for v3.0 - To build an 'Enhanced Encounter System';

1. Girl Stat System (Stats to track a 3-tiered 'Disposition' system; Global/Local + Action-specific, to simulate interaction)
2. Girl Trait System (Achievements/Passives to give to/gain on girls to trigger more specific detailed dialogue options)
3. Girl Routine System (Means to immerse the Girls in the Overworld with Schedules, and add 'unlockable information')
4. Enhanced Combat System (incl. alternative to dating e.g. train-groping, rape-scenes etc. for storytelling/dialogues)
5. Enhanced Dating System (3 Generic/Standardized templates for 5-Fased Progression paths for storybuilding)
   1. Love
   2. Lust <- I'm not gonna elaborate on the mechanics, should be pretty straightforward what it's gonna be like.
   3. Money
6. Exploration-/Travel System (used to utilize the overworld more effectivly and ramp up the amount of locations)
   1. Travel Distance = need for public transport/car-ownership = money
   2. Dates in distant places = more room for Overworld storytelling.
7. Some new Locations and maybe update the NPC Spawn Randomizer to be a little more compelling at this point.
8. Adjust the 'Preset Dialogue Girl' Template to provide updated resource for Dialogue Writers.

Features for v4.0 - To build an 'Optimized Sexual Interaction System';

1. Essential: Home System (creating home ownership utilizes money/work/time etc, but also storytelling aspects)
   1. e.g. Small Apartment, can't live together and raise children
   2. e.g. Large House w/ Basement, can upgrade to have BDSM-dungeon for reasons.
   3. e.g. Farmhouse w/ Barns and Harvest, micromanagement to make 'jobs less tedious' eventually, and *Neigh*)
2. Capture System (in short, creating a standardized/generic 4-fased storytelling gameloop to 'unlock' control over girls)
   1. 'Get info', Utilizing the Overworld for encounters and Dating etc to reach 'Friendship/Flirting' Fase.
   2. 'Strategize approach', Utilizing the Combat-/Dating mechanics to find a way to get 'Physical'
   3. Capture, for lack of a better word the 'boss battle'. The dialogue requirements that must be met to own the girl.
   4. Corrupt/Train/Marry whatever the story requires/wants to immerse for longevity in the Overworld (Endgoal).
   5. Additional remark: Utlizes the Capture step to in some form or another have them 'move in' within your control.
      1. e.g. Prostitute in your Brothel
      2. e.g. Housewive raising your Kids
      3. e.g. Sexlave in your Basement Dungeon
      4. e.g. Living inside the belly of a giant tentacle hivemind in the sewers for all I care :)
3. Integrating Target Area System (a means to micromanage Girls training by focussing on specific 'areas of interest') :x
4. Integrating community modules (tweaks, poses and assets already available to further enhance the overall experience and options for the Dialogue Writers to enhance their ready-available templates and improver the user-friendly experience of adding stuff to the collective Overworld.
5. Final Tweaks (creating some specifically tailored tweaks to put the dots on the i's)
6. Adjust the 'Preset Dialogue Girl' Template to provide updated resource for Dialogue Writers.

Features for v5.0 - To Create an Out-of-the-Box (OOTB) Experience for Newcommers (and a hommage to an era of e-history)

1. Main Storyline (Could really be anything, but a life-sim of the PC would be my first guess)
2. Sandbox Mode (Sustain the freeform we kept until v4.0 optional, by disabling scripted events from the Storymode)
3. Continued Community updates/bugfixes w/e (Anything should be possible at this point, just ticking it off to conclude)
4. Adjust the 'Preset Dialogue Girl' Template to provide as user-friendly updated resource/template for Dialogue Writers.
5. Create other final documentation and tools to make the customization and writing of new dialogues more user friendly and rewarding in light of exposure to the playerbase. Perhaps implement some rating system, or feedbackloop as well to integrate favourites into the Main Storyline etc.

Now I'm just gonna leave it here as-is, but I'll be coming back to check in on the discussion. I know that this can be done with the work already done by many great contributors to this game/forum/fanbase. I'm gonna refrain from making any promises or raising any expectations this time. But I'm keeping an open mind for now.

Thanks for reading this so far!

 

[Super18]

Just some quick notes. Did some nosing around for v1.0, and came to the following design choice. If anyone has feedback on this initial assumption they're welcome to share. Since I haven't written any of it yet or anything. When I do the feedback would be welcome (if I do).

I figure using Dialogue.txt as a pivotal "loadout screen" for transitioning between 'scenes',
This way Dialogue.txt can keep track of everything for moving around the Overworld.
Traveling across the world would follow this process;

PC Moves from 'dialogue' to 'dialogue' basically, each storing their own local parameters to pass on to the global (pivotal)dialogue.txt which stores (and checks) all the variables and calculates the triggers for events etc etc. Dialogue.txt should function as an in-between screen, perhaps just a proc of simple one-liners that anounce encounters, or arrival. Would also be fun if there could be a little animation going on of traveling busses, or walking pedestrians. But that's a Could Have. Not important. A fade out is just as good.

Map Movement then uniformally looks like: Location_A.txt -> (pivotal)Dialogue.txt -> Location_B.txt is.
Dialogue.txt will take parameters from Location_A.txt and then process them. Arithmetics on (pivotal)Dialogue.txt would then do stuff like calculating 'random encounters', as well as DAY/TIME etc would trigger events. The Same uniform proces for every single transition between scene's. A bunch of mathematics of which I actually in most cases already have a clear idea and at least in some crucial cases a formulation on how to calc everything. As well as the scripted events can trigger with passed on variables and this is basicly the core idea of the mod.

Inside Dialogue.txt variables are passed on and processed to determine stuff like passing of DAY/TIME, scripted encounters, random encounters. Location_B.txt therefore is also not the only Location_B.txt, but there should be like;
- Location_B_no_encounter
- Location_B_scripted_encounter_x (the sequence of custom dialogues users might write, and perhaps storymode in a distant future)
- Location_B_random_encounter_enumx
- Loads and loads of unique dialogues in the long run, of which many can be partially duplicated (like the random encounters). All I can hope is that dialogues get dropped from memory after they're not needed anymore. Because they will ramp up quite quickly. Not sure how that works with the loader.

These localized dialogues can each process given variables to determine their own isolated individual 'scenes'.
That should basicly be a solid backbone for the Overworld transitiong, considering lag might be a thing and shorter events/dialogues/textfiles/scenes seem prefferable to complicated and long textfiles that will be sequentially processed line-for-line (pretty sure thats the case). I'm not quite sure how a vast amount of dialogues will effect the framerate etc. Any feedback on that (especially on limitations is very welcome). If there is a fine balance I'd need to keep in check and I'm not seeing, this would be valuable to know. Please share insights.

If everything works out, this pivotal dialogue.txt approach should also provide some back-up to 'check' local states against previous states, against the global state, and allow for stuff like debugging, and in-game checks to avoid save-game corruptions etc. Not quite sure how to go about it yet, but the uniformity should make it at least somewhat managable. (Limitations with interfacing due to lack of event-/object based coding sure is a pain)

Seems like a fairly managable workload all things considered though for this v1.0.

Another note on the 'Template for dialogue writers', or the 'Preset Girl' thing i noted at point 7 on the roadmap;
The template should be pre-written with all the neccesary parameters to transition between scene's.
Custom dialogue writers for the Overworld should cut their concept/idea up in 'scenes', or in other words sequences of events. E.g. Scene 1: First Date, Scene 2: Sneaking in the bedroom, Scene 3: Weddingnight.
Then these should be passed on to various 'triggers' of which a list of options/commands (a cheatsheet) should be provided in the template. Stuff like specific DAY and/or TIME, or after some other condition is met they pass on to the (pivotal)Dialogue.txt. One painpoint I'm seeing is 'redundancy' when different writers use similar variables to launch a scripted event. Not quite thought about how to solve that yet. Ideas are welcome.

This passing on variables to the (pivotal)Dialogue.txt might cause a little headache though, concerning editing the (pivotal)Dialogue.txt for custom/scripted events, but I'm thinking about perhaps using something like 'reusable/temporary placeholder variables' to limit the need for actual 'permanent variables' to be stored in global.txt. But these would then be limited to a certain amount of 'memory slots' I am sure, and Dialogue Writers would then also need to keep track of which 'slots' they use for their dialogues.
At least this would make it somewhat managable to fill personal preferences by doing some basic merging and a little superficial (manual) editing at worst. It's nothing that should stop the project from actually happening, just tedious stuff I'd love to see a best approach for.
Not quite sure how to best solve that particular problem yet. Worst-case we'll need to have a dedicated segment in the Dialogue.txt itself for hardcoded custom parameters (a little mod.txt inside the dialogue.txt), but I'd rather see that avoided if remotely possible. Any ideas on solving this particular obstacle are welcome (I hoped I explained it well, sorry I'm dutch).

Either way, clear code conventions incl. '-notes' should be adopted into the templates for the dialogue Writers.
It should be a "guide" and "cheatsheet" as well as a template to keep everything neatly stored together in a logical manner to minimize the need to ask around on how to do stuff and have people just writing their smut. I can see that being at least somewhat managable in the provided context. Hope the loader dumps used dialogues from the memory and doesn't register -notes in the stack for some dumb reason. Not sure how the dialogues are processed by the Loader.

But with all that said. This should basically form a solid plan to build the foundation for v1.0.
Besides figuring out the Global/Local savestate thing, but I'm not specifically worried about that. Rather, the UI and it's art worry me more. My only fear for this being the right coarse of action are unforeseen restrictions.
Any artist willing to pick up a little vector art to make a slick UI let me know. Not quite sure what we'd need yet (besides the outline set out in the roadmap, but I'm already aware that in future versions we'd need more elements to it of which at least 3 different disposition meters between bad and good), but if someone is capable and willing, I wouldn't mind going out of my way to get that part out of the way as soon as possible.

Seems like a fairly managable workload . Clear plan, solid approach(?).
If I wasn't so busy all the time I could probably do 80% of it within a week. Not sure if I will... but at least there's direction and order this time.

 

[Super18]

Well... it seems I kinda started fixing up the loader for the first build. Took a while, but now I've got my workspace organized in case I feel inclined to work on it when I have time again. Neat and organized now. A lot of new features have been added as well. Seems there has been significant progress on the loader since I left a few year ago.

 

[Super18]

Gonna keep this post here to keep track of any requests I might make;
- https://www.undertow.club/threads/more-tears-compatibility-for-dialogueactions.19377/

 

[Schreiner]

damn thats some meaty posts, im not gonna read everything, but im excited to see you back at it again :)

edit: it looks like you have a lot planned again, I suggest to start small and have something working before working on bigger things