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Comparing Characters of Two Different Universes

Discussion in 'Video Games' started by Giafuremu, Jan 22, 2016.

  1. Giafuremu

    Giafuremu Vivacious Visitor

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    I couldn't figure out where to put this since I think this would span more than just video games, but video games are my favorite form of media and most commonly are the ones compared to each other (crossover games like Smash, Playstation All-Stars, etc, I'm looking at you).

    This is actually a discussion I tend to like doing despite thinking the idea of it is kinda dumb in the first place since different universes almost always have different standards of what "strong" is.

    In another topic, the RWBY's Yang vs FFVII's Tifa Death Battle was brought up as a ryona video (and is completely relevant there) but, a few posts later, it started moving off-topic from ryona videos on video hosting websites. So in an effort to keep that topic on-topic, I made this topic here.

    What would everyone here say is the way to go about comparing characters of two different universes, what characters would you like to see compared in some way, and would anyone like to have a (civil) discussion to these sorts of situations (meaning coming up with our own cheap little Death Battle that's more discussion and debate than people "researching" and placing their findings.)

    Starting off, I'd like to respond to this post by Thief

    In regards to the Sol vs Ragna one, I would argue that Ragna would win with the conditions they allowed. They allowed Ragna access to Black Beast, something that has canonically only been taken down by 6 already over powered Heroes on top of an army humans wielding magic powers created from the Black Beast's own powers to kill it.

    Sol is very powerful in his universe but he can still be beaten. Their logic saying that "the Black Beast is smaller than the biggest thing Sol has destroyed in one punch, so therefore Sol can blow up the Black Beast in one hit" tells me that atoms are the easiest thing in the world to break. If that were the case, the world would not exist as it does now.

    As for the Cloud vs Link, I really don't know what they were thinking there aside from "we like Link more than Cloud" because a lot of things could be argued against Link even with his entire arsenal. For one thing, they ignored basic physics (blocking does not negate all damage unless you have some vibration proof shield which Link most definitely does not have) and Cloud has demonstrated superhuman strength on several occasions. It could also be argued that the Golden Gauntlets do not technically give Link super strength as he does not gain the ability to block attacks he normally couldn't, do more damage with melee weapons, or push things faster. It would be safer to say it makes it easier for him to lift things (which is far sillier, more limited, and makes more sense with the changes that the Golden Gauntlets do).

    Anyways, long post. If this is irrelevant or in the wrong place, please delete and/or move.
     
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  2. Sausage&Eggs

    Sausage&Eggs Avid Affiliate

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    I love crossovers. To recommend some you might have missed:
    Project X Zone (very grindy)
    Project X Zone 2 (demo out soon!)
    Super Robot Wars series
    Orochi Warriors
    Jump Stars series
    Dissidia series
    Plenty of fighting games I won't list.

    On to topic discussion, these fights would never happen obviously so just like comics it boils down to author of story.
    Link will under no concievable circumstances other than Triforce bullshittery out fight Cloud when both are in peak form. Even when strictly comparing sword skills they are pretty far apart in scale. That doesn't necessarily mean Link is weak it is just that his universe's scales are different so it becomes like comparing apples and oranges. Cloud outright defies physics and logic in his own universe. He cuts through huge chunks of building debris like it is paper. He can almost fly. -_-
    Mean while, take him into another universe such as his cameo on Final Fantasy Tactics and laugh at his mediocrity.

    Ragna and Sol works very much the same. Sol is so OP the only reason he might lose is likely because he doesn't care enough to win and throws the match or repeatedly gets careless... Even then I argue if he would "lose". But again, different measuring scales I think. The ability to wipe an army for instance doesn't necessarily mean you can defeat one singular strong enemy.

    Often for game play sake you have to tone down a character's power to something more manageable from gameplay perspective. I mean Kirby survives Black Holes like it is nothing, can't have that kind of shit in Smash Bros.

    Then there is something else to consider. Often motivation to fight can help the hero overcome stronger opponents. When you pit 1 hero against another hero it is trickier because I think they will often just call a truce out of respect for the skill of their opponent and realising how serious the fight is going to get.

    They should put Saitama and Genos in Guilty Gear.
     
  3. Giafuremu

    Giafuremu Vivacious Visitor

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    It's always an interesting thing to try, but yeah. I agree with the apples and oranges. As I said in my original post, almost all universes have different standards of strength.

    The most interesting ones are when you can get two universes that are not the same, but similar enough that it would make an interesting battle.

    Like say... Street Fighter vs KOF (which has already been done)
     
  4. Sausage&Eggs

    Sausage&Eggs Avid Affiliate

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    Total agree. It is best when the perception of strength and powers are similar or equal. No one really wants to see one stomp the other because that is boring.

    I actually quite like Dissidia. Particularly I always enjoyed fighting Lightning Vs Squall since they both use a mix of gunblades and magic. Lore wise Squall is very average, just a highly skilled, well trained anti-sorcerer mercenary. Lightning in her own universe is pretty much a God so there is no real comparison despite gameplay showing her as also just very capable. I also like how despite them both using similar weapons they use them differently.
    :D
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2016
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  5. Thief

    Thief Vivacious Visitor

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    I can see Iori Yagami vs Ryu, simply because Iori doesn't like that Kyo may have a rival in another person. XD

    Regarding Link, I think one issue with him is that most fans automatically assume his arsenal and strategies equal an instant win button. Or pile up his stat boosting gear and make him a Dragon Ball Z fighter without really measuring his actual capabilities and think he can defeat head on anybody, when he rarely if ever overpowers his opponents aside mooks. Most of the time he uses the right item to expose and exploit a weakness in his opponents, but he never jumps around, outpowers and tanks attacks, that actually goes against his fighting style. That said it shouldn't be underestimated what he can do, even if it doesn't look that spectacular he has beaten evil gods and giant monsters alone repeatedly, however not by beating them up in an exchange like some people want to believe, Link is equipped with the right tools for the job after all and is shown to be able to use it pretty well. I think something that should be taken in mind is how his equipment adds up and what limitations are there. I mean, many fans just assume that Link carries all the gear he has ever gotten, that he has everything at all times and can use it no prob, despite Zelda games do show a limited space for him and he replaces pieces of his gear when he gets a new one quite frequently and most of his stuff doesn't even exist at the same time.

    This is the sort of thing why the whole measuring is needed. How much can Link lift? Does that apply to his attack power? How fast is he normally how fast is he with his gear? Cloud shoved Sephiroth through 4 stories, how much strength he used? How fast is Cloud? A more spectacular display doesn't equal superiority, however too much benefit of doubt is also unfair and overall a lazy move. The whole "this is more X can do" just reeks of bias wherever it comes from. I mean, it isn't fair assume Link would lose simply because Cloud has higher destructive power, there are other factors. The same way, say Cloud can't match up Link because Link displayed greater strength is also unfair. More precisely, Link does have tons of powerful defensive gear to whistand damage that would defend him against Cloud's attacks, and in Cloud's case his strength was never measured, but in Yang vs Tifa they did say that to break a concrete pillar you need 1400 tons, in Advent Children Cloud is seen shoving Sephiroth through 4 concrete stories of a building, so he likely did have the strength they dismissed. I think the issue is that many times this isn't present, especially among fans of one character... most of the time it's just "he doesn't need proof! You can see he is much better or is invincible!" which is just gushing over a character you like rather than an analysis

    Death Battle usually uses all types of strength at the same and all types of speed as the same but for the sake of argument, otherwise the exact parameters would be impossible to get and they need to crate a common ground for the analysis somehow. Though I do agree about the point Giafuremu does about the Golden Gauntlets: aside lifting nothing else seems affecter, blocking does not become more effective and Link doesn't do more damage, actually, things that do boost Link's attack strength do have an effect in gameplay, like the Red Tunic which deals double damage and sends enemies flying. I think the issue was that they relied too much un cutscene things and discarded gamplay. THis really affects FFVII characters given how heavy on gameplay only things their setup is.

    I don't know where they got that Cloud is stupid, though. I mean he: had formal military training (which includes several field missions fighting monsters and travelling), had his own world adventure fighting all sort of enemies, has a job as a delivery boy travelling the world and facing dangers (for several years) and he did have access to Zack's memories and experience. He is an aggresive fighter, but that's about it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2016
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  6. Sickerton

    Sickerton Casual Client Content Creator

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    I haven't actually seen the video you're talking about, but they argued that Cloud is dumb compared to Link? That's interesting; I would have actually put forward the idea that it's Link who isn't the shiniest rupee.

    I imagine everyone who cares to some degree about the Zelda series knows about the Triforce, and the standard bearers for each segment. Ganondorf is unrivaled in might as the holder of the Power piece, Princess Zelda is peerless mentally as the holder of the Wisdom piece, and Link is the bravest of the land as the holder of the Courage piece.

    What's usually overlooked, though, is that they go all-in with their respective specialties. They don't just lag behind the other two in the other sections, they're downright terrible at them.

    Ganondorf wants to rule over all with his iron fist; sometimes for somewhat respectable reasons, sometimes just for the hell of it. Despite being the only one out of the three who can be considered the same character almost every time instead of a reincarnation starting from scratch, he just plain forgets why he's doing what he does. And, if he ever actually gains control over the land like he wishes, without fail he runs it all into the ground faster than a Goron wearing lead boots. Although he has the power to attain what he wants, when he get there he has absolutely nothing planned to actually keep it as anything worth having. And, although no one would call the dark one cowardly, here's an interesting thought: If you know that -- without a doubt -- you are by far the strongest and toughest person in any room you ever walk into, how brave do you have to be? You know that you're going to squash anyone who steps up to you. Courage is mental strength in the face of adversity, and nothing save a pointy-eared boy too full of courage to realize how screwed he should be can give Ganondorf any trouble.

    Zelda is also an interesting case. Often a heavy mover and shaker in the stories despite rarely stepping in herself, the princess is usually the one to both get the ball rolling and seal the deal for the side of light. She identifies the trouble brewing, organizes her royal military to hold off the danger as efficiently as they can to buy time, roots out the new incarnation of Link and fills him in on the details/her plan, pops in and out along the way to drop off useful abilities and items, and at the end is usually waiting with a light arrow spell to put the evil down. As the bearer of Wisdom, she is the most tactically sound of the three... but also as said bearer, she is the easiest to beat back or subdue. Lacking both the overwhelming power of Ganondorf or the foolhardy courage of Link (as well as being responsible for the wellbeing of her kingdom), Princess Zelda will often fold and surrender when brought face-to-face with a major threat. She can't afford to brave on ahead, as it may doom her soldiers/citizens, and she knows the slim odds of her success better than anyone else on the battlefield. Her most common strategy is a type of tactical retreat, fleeing into hiding while she tosses valuable tools to those who are better suited for the brawl. Even in the final deciding battle she is not brave/stupid enough to face the enemy head on; instead opting to stand behind the one with the shield and sword then say "I've got your back".

    And Link? He's brave, no doubt about it. The bravest of all, considering he's literally going up against someone who is not only stronger than him but the strongest by default. But that also makes him... uh, a little dim. Link is so filled with logic-overriding courage that he'll plunge sword-first into anything, regardless of how terribly outmatched he seems to be. Sure, one can argue that it's clever to take down many of these threats because their defeat often leads to something that benefits the main quest or cripples the ultimate evil, but think hard: Who figured that out? Chances are it wasn't Link. In every game Link has several support characters and assistants drip-feeding him plans and all-but leading him around by the nose; Zelda, Midna, various fairies, a talking boat, a mask salesman, his own sword... Link is not the planner, merely the one sent to do the heavy lifting. He is almost as much a tool as the items he collects and the shield he holds. The hardest he has to think usually involves stuff like sliding block puzzles or realizing that he should try out the new gadget he just got on the boss that shows up soon afterwards; which can make him clever, but not smart. And, as a relatively normal person with a sword and shield, he isn't terribly strong either. It's just that in the end, the massive amount of Batman-level tools he's gathered up alongside his unrivaled inability to know when to call it quits eventually allows him to plow through to victory. That infant with the block toys could eventually shove the square block through the round hole. He just has to be dedicated enough to do it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2016
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  7. Giafuremu

    Giafuremu Vivacious Visitor

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    Regarding Cloud vs Link, they basically did dumb [Cloud] down to a brute who doesn't use strategy.

    But even with all his equipment, Link cannot feasibly defeat Cloud because it's basically pitting Batman (though not as smart or rich) against like... Goku. Link hasn't fought ANYONE like Cloud. No one with remotely similar levels of strength, speed, or intelligence. Especially not all three.

    But that's one of the biggest biased videos. They limited Cloud's arsenal while giving Link an arsenal that he never had. They made Link a composite character, having all the best parts of all the Links while Cloud was limited to base abilities from Dissidia.

    Regarding the "super strength" that Link has access to, one thing I would always note is that even after getting the Silver or Golden Gauntlets, he cannot block Iron Knuckles, cannot use the Biggoron Sword with one hand, cannot push blocks faster, and cannot swing the Megaton Hammer with any amount of ease. Super strength should cover all those but the Golden Gauntlets don't allow him any extra feats except picking up boulders and that pillar (which is why I say that it gives him the ability to lift and throw things, but not necessarily give him the straight up super strength). Another theory is that the Golden Gauntlets are simply enchanted with the enchantment that allows him to pick up those pillars and throw them, but only those pillars. Both of which would not help him.
     
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  8. Sausage&Eggs

    Sausage&Eggs Avid Affiliate

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    I think it is safe to say that the gauntlet gives him super strength but they couldn't do all that because video games and balance issues. I also think that it is not really "super" strength in terms of scale. More like "Goron Strength" instead so strong by human/Hylian standards. Nitpicking on things like inability to swing Bigsword around with 1h is silly. You might as well say he could punch people with far more effectiveness than striking with the Master Sword or that Link could just wear multiple Masks in Majora. Fierce Deity with bunny speed in giant size.... Yeah, no. It needs to work in game and you can leave the rest to the imagination.

    In any case the match is incredibly poor despite what fans wishes. Cloud at the least has a Buster Sword which has two materia slots this means he can do bullshit like Quad-Bahamat Zero. Cloud has no answer to a nuke from orbit. If Link has access to Goddess powers to save his ass Cloud could answer with being saved by Aeris and again it just comes down to the author.

    Also want to point out. Link can fire arrows from Epona but Cloud deflects bullets like nothing on his motorcycle. Again it isn't a good match up. Funnily enough, no horses in FFVII. Cloud would probably fall off a horse but could ride a chocobo.
     
  9. Giafuremu

    Giafuremu Vivacious Visitor

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    While I agree that it is a nitpick, saying the "can't swing the Biggoron Sword with one hand" is exactly the sort of nitpick that a lot of people would / could use to justify why a character is stronger or weaker than they are (at least Death Battle does).

    After all, they said "Tifa never demonstrated the strength she shows during her Limit Breaks outside of Limits, so it stands to reason she cannot use that strength outside of her limit breaks". Which is absolutely stupid.

    When comparing two characters, nitpicks often come from intense scrutiny. This is also one of the reasons why these sort of comparisons of characters can never be resolved period. After all, look at the Goku vs Superman Death Battle. I think that's by far the most polarized one.
     
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  10. Viridian

    Viridian Potential Patron

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    That WAS totes stupid. I've seen all of RWBY mind you and played FF7, I agree with the overall verdict... Yang basically is a super Saiyan and everything Tifa swung at her just presided to compound the eventual 'death punch' so to speak... I'm doubtful that Tifa really had an answer to an anime equivalent of 'The Hulk' when her skills basically involve punching things as hard as she can, but nevertheless the Death Battles have always and will always have a bias against FF because for whatever reason they seem to just not like the games.
     
  11. Giafuremu

    Giafuremu Vivacious Visitor

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    Yang has yet to legitimately win a fight by herself while Tifa has demonstrated much greater feats while out of practise (as shown in Advent Children, she demonstrates greater speed (basically flash stepping several times against Loz), just as much strength (if not more), and Tifa is far more experienced as well.

    Yang is not a Super Saiyan or the Hulk. She was almost beaten by Mercury and if the not-so-newly released game is any indication of her resilience, she really can't take much of a hit. In RWBY Grimm Eclipse, all the characters can take 2 or 3 hits before they're out of their protective aura. After that, she can take 5 hits at best before being out of commission.

    Meanwhile, Tifa can demonstrate tanking hits from the Weapons, which are far more powerful than anything RWBY has to offer.

    Please do explain how Yang is like the Hulk or a Super Saiyan, because she hasn't done anything near either of those.
     
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  12. Sickerton

    Sickerton Casual Client Content Creator

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    The snippy answer would be that they're literally things the creation of her character drew from heavily, to the point that her themesong actually namedrops herself as one in boast.

    The more reasonable explanation, though, is that they all have "Rubber banding" as an inherent ability. The more you beat on them, the more powerful they get, so as long as they can hold on by the skin of their teeth they can eventually rebound and crush their opposition. They either lose fast or not at all, since they break the scale if allowed to snowball long enough.

    Like, Onslaught was a composite psionic being made out of the minds of the world's greatest psychic and one of the Marvel Universe's most powerful mutants. He was legit stronger than everyone else put together. But Hulk eventually got angry enough to grab hold of this guy (who is made of thoughts, remember) and tear him in half. The real danger from these characters is not how they match up to others normally, but that they have a constantly rising capability in battle with no top cap. It's a fight against the clock as much as it is against them.
     
  13. Giafuremu

    Giafuremu Vivacious Visitor

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    Inspiration, yes. But inspiration is not equivalence.

    But that "rubber banding" thing is also not a reasonable explanation, especially in the world of RWBY which is incredibly inconsistent over all the current materials, including the 3 volumes and the game. Rubberbanding is also prevalent in a lot of anime and video games. It's arguable that Tifa is like that, especially if you want to bring in Dissidia where there are passive skills like Gambler's Spirit and Cat Nip which are all centered around powering yourself up while you are behind.

    Such as Yang tanking the pillar (vs Iron Paladin), then knocked out by being kicked into the ceiling (vs Neo), to being KO'd by no more than 10 hits in quick succession (the game). I also point to that Yang never won a single major fight by herself legitimately in the series (unless you count her trailer).

    Iron Paladin was defeated with everyone in Team RWBY contributing (Weiss and Ruby slowing it down, Blake giving Yang a way to control her movement, and Yang ultimately dealing the blow that she was not quick enough to actually land without help)
    Neo defeated Yang.
    Nora ejected Yang from the (food) fight.
    At first it looks like Mercury legitimately lost, but he revealed he threw the fight in the following episode.
     
  14. Sickerton

    Sickerton Casual Client Content Creator

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    RWBY is a series which essentially changed hands, as the main creator and world-shaper suddenly died during what was supposed to be a routine procedure. To say that consistency may be an issue is a bit of an understatement.

    There is nothing "arguable" about Yang's rubber banding capabilities, as it is the official explanation of her semblance. It is a key part of her powerset, just like the two sources it is drawn from. Implying that generic "Get serious when behind" fluff bonuses in a spinoff game is equivalent to this is just kind of silly. The Amazon from Dragon's Crown gets stronger as her health decreases, as well as faster with every successful blow. She can even make herself invulnerable for brief moments. Is she, Yang, Goku, The Incredible Hulk, and Tifa all equally as capable in this regard?

    And while on that subject, I think you may be accidentally or intentionally prioritizing certain forms of media over others to strengthen your case where it doesn't make much sense to do so. The game, being a co-op moba-ish side project, is balanced so that four people get a challenge against waves of generic enemies. I don't even know if Yang has her semblance buffs in it, but if they're there I'm sure they have been neutered for the sake of fun gameplay. Trying to figure out how much damage a character can give or take based on this game would be like reasoning that The Silver Surfer is the weakest comic book character, because absolutely anything can kill him in his game.

    Noting that she does not have much in the way of victories all by herself also means little, since you are pointing this out as if the character you're trying to champion does not come from a series almost entirely based around tactical team-based combat. The only difference between the two in this regard is that Tifa has the benefit of franchise age to build up side-fluff that can be combed through for things she might have done all on her own.

    Man, I don't even have a stake in this apparent sore spot. I just think you're going about this all wrong. You're trying to push through the character's greatest strength -- her reactive power gain -- while ignoring the greatest exploit you could ever have: It all goes away if you mess with her hair. You're punching Superman in the chest and shouting "He's not so tough!" while Lex Luthor looks down at you from his penthouse, idly rolling a sphere of kryptonite from hand to hand. Work smarter, not harder.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2016
  15. ghost13

    ghost13 Avid Affiliate

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    I would like to bring up the "no limits fallacy" which deathbattle is notorious for playing as a trump card i.e. Yang v Tifa and supes v Goku. Superman essentially can't be beat because no (way to explain that one guys), and yang's semblance has no limits (which from what I have read is bs. Idk. Don't watch it.).

    And simplifying Tifa to "punches things as hard as you can" is really base. Like... REALLY base. Her feats of strength could, I dare say, surpass that of cloud. And I'm talking in game.

    Yeah, overall damage is not great but that isn't because of her character. She uses gloves and knuckles which, in ff vii, have some of the lowest damage in the game. But she has awesome RAW damage.

    She can LIFT AND SUPLEX kaiju sized bosses in the game with one gd hand. Her limit break is broken due to the fact that she can strings together (potenitially critically) all of her limits in one go.

    AND (from the prima strategy guide) her final heaven packs the power of a small nuke into one punch... Which according to deathbattle isn't as strong as a concrete pillar but regardless..

    They NERFED Tifa to hell and back. Not an opinion.

    -EDIT-

    Also; from what I have researched about yang, her semblance buffs her attack strength. And that's it. Not her defense (which they said is what won it for her.). It can be argued that her speed would increase due to strengthened legs but she still (in practical video game common sense) couldn't take what Tifa (not deathbattle nerfed) would dish out.

    ALSO; they brought up that Tifa relies heavily on teamwork while yang solo'd a tank. This is a blatant lie. Yang delivered the final attack sure, but after the rest of rwby pummeled it to near death. Not sure if yang has solo'd anything honestly. Again, I don't care to watch the show.

    Their logic was far from sound. The result was meh.

    And that's why that fight is considered by deathbattle forums to be the phantom menace of death battle lol.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2016
  16. Giafuremu

    Giafuremu Vivacious Visitor

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    Monty Oum passed away between Volume 2 and 3. Only one of the examples I said was from Volume 3. Furthermore, Monty wasn't secretive about the story of RWBY with his team. Consistency is something RWBY needed to work on. I really don't dislike RWBY, far from it. I've kept up with every episode, but arguing universe vs universe is another thing entirely.

    I just dislike how Death Battle went about it (though I understand why Yang won (between RT and SA both being owned by Full Screen, RWBY Volume 3's upcoming release that weekend, and RT even having a direct hand in creating it).

    DB intentionally misrepresented facts in several of their videos, including Yang vs Tifa (probably one of the more blatant ones too).

    Yes, Yang gets stronger when she's angry (it's arguable whether it's taking damage at this point because her Semblance has flared up in several occasions where she's just angry and not wounded). Her Semblance also does nothing for her durability and her aura in the show is inconsistent on when it's strong (Iron Paladin), when it's strong enough (Mercury), or disappears after a few hits (Neo (Note: Neo could have some secret Aura draining Semblance but this is speculation and still doesn't change much as Aura doesn't completely negate damage.)).

    Falling from terminal velocity, survive, and get up like nothing happened is something normal humans can do (albeit rarely (and incidentally, Tifa has fallen from the top of a skyscraper, landed on her feet, and stood up straight like she just hopped 10 feet into the air)).

    The pillar was misrepresented (they showed vertical force on the pillar and not horizontal). Furthermore, the pillars in RWBY are very, very, very tall. That compromises the structural integrity of them, especially considering that they aren't exactly the thickest pillars around. It also makes you wonder what the hell the engineers were thinking making a freeway lifted several miles into the air.
     
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  17. Sausage&Eggs

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    I don't know about Yang but I find it hard to justify the fights if you give them all the powers and capabilities in the games...
    Tifa equips Destruct and Added Effect materias. She now has chance of instant kills on regular attacks. WTF?:cool:
    Tifa casts Toad on her enemy...:rolleyes:
    Tifa equips Pheonix+Final Attack materias. She now summons phoenix whenever she is defeated, phoenix burns all enemies and revives all allies to full hp.:eek:

    Like... How do you take these seriously?
    Tifa casts poison and runs away. :tongue:

    I love me some Tifa but if we allow everything then shit gets silly so fast. Same with Superman. If you give him all the powers and strengths from all his comics then he is pretty much unkillable. If you go by Man of Steel movie, Goku snaps his neck in moments. You need rules for any meaningful debate but rules will often favor one side and limit another.
     
  18. Giafuremu

    Giafuremu Vivacious Visitor

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    That's the exact problem I have with Death Battle. They'll use the rules to favor one character while gimping the other and then hide behind the mantle of "Oh, well, we researched this and our research makes us an expert."

    [EDIT]
    To clarify using one of the earlier examples (Cloud vs Link), they used their rules to give Link access to all his equipment, but were like "Cloud -wouldn't- use the materia, so we're not going to give him materia" or his better weapon".

    The problem isn't "there are no rules", it's that they'll use the rules to favor one or the other.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2016
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  19. Viridian

    Viridian Potential Patron

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    *Sigh* really? I agree about it being dumb that they thought it necessary to gimp Tifa's abilities... from a series I've actually PLAYED while personally (read PERSONALLY) agreeing with the final product having also WATCHED RWBY, and it devolves into this sort of fanboy console war fluff? :/ Fine. Whatever. Here goes. Yang has won fights on her own. She won the fight in her trailer (which is evidenced as cannon several times in the show) she just won a fight in a tournament in a recent episode. She lost against an opponent who was pointedly NOT HITTING HER HARD and redirecting her attacks rather than all out attacking.

    Yang is like the Hulk, canonically! The Incredible Hulk get's stronger the more you beat on him. He isn't JUST indestructible like in the movie-verse. Yang's semblance, I.E. her singularly special superpower (like Phyrra's polarity powers being singular to her) is that she absorbs hits and that they make her stronger. Sans the Hulk. She also speed hops around as quickly as I ever saw Tifa move in Advent Children (in a fight sequence I'd point out she LOST in, total BS as well, but when Square Enix itself seems hellbent on making Tifa the damsel in Distress you can hardly blaim the outlaying public oppinion)

    I've never seen a single thing in Final Fantasy that made me think that these characters could take on the Hulk. Maybe Advent children Cloud and Sephiroth (though their powers ALSO rely on beating things until they stop moving which doesn't work on hulks) No one else, so that's why I don't believe Tifa has an answer to the RWBY equivalent of the Hulk. She would have had a much better match against literally ANY of the rest of the cast.

    LASTLY, I don't know which physics universe you're referencing, but ordinary humans do NOT fall from terminal velocity and get back up like nothing happened... EVER. They splat and die. A few people have had circumstances surrounding a terminal fall that either negated the impact or slowed their descent over the centuries such as a man who fell from an airplane and landed in a pile of hey, and that guy who fell from the World Trade Center and was slowed by the updraft, but universally if you are falling at terminal velocity and land on the ground you're dead or severely broken.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2016
  20. ghost13

    ghost13 Avid Affiliate

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    Comic book lore.

    Ultimate hulk: his power is his ability to adapt, hence his ever increasing strength as a result to physical injury, etc.

    Put him in a atmosphere relative to that of Mars and guess what? His body adapted. Turned him into some gnarly monster looking thing, but he survived.

    Underwater? Would grow gills and whatever else to survive.

    That is hulk. Unstoppable.

    Yang? Stoppable.

    Yang =/= Hulk.