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Sailor Moon Narikiri Bra

Discussion in 'SDT Requests' started by invisibleman2212, Aug 15, 2014.

  1. invisibleman2212

    invisibleman2212 Potential Patron

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    This is something I found online. It i s basically a bra and panties version of the Sailor Moon and Sailor Scouts outfits. If anyone could make a version of this for the game I would be grateful. ;D

    The important thing to remember is the sailor collar and bow on the bra and another bow on the panties.

    [attachimg=1]
     

    Attached Files:

  2. AaRL

    AaRL Swell Supporter

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    Check out Faceless' and mike's threads. They've done all the Sailor outfits... the suits that is. Not this version. Still, its something!

    Faceless - http://www.sdtmods.com/index.php?topic=1078.0

    Mike - (Loader) http://www.sdtmods.com/index.php?topic=3286.0
     
  3. invisibleman2212

    invisibleman2212 Potential Patron

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    Thank you, I have seen that Faceless post, however I would still like to see these made.
     
  4. Nigida

    Nigida Casual Client

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  5. Faceless

    Faceless Club Regular Content Creator

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    Should actually be fairly straightforward. Lift the bra and brief shapes straight from SDT, and modify as necessary. Maybe ask Mike for permission to use his bows, to avoid redrawing them if possible. The trickiest part is probably making a generic version with the proper color controls for the bows, which don't consistently translate. That'd need the loader, I think, but standalone versions with fixed colors won't have that problem.

    But I'm lazy, so someone else do it.
     
  6. stuntcock

    stuntcock Club Regular Staff Member Moderator

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    I'll volunteer to handle this Request ... but I'll need some feedback. I've highlighted a few items which merit special attention or discussion. If anyone would like to offer advice, share concerns, or post additional reference images, then your input is welcome!

    I'm going to insist on a minimal level of support and participation by the SDTMods forum. If nobody can be bothered to answer questions or find reference images, then I'll assume that nobody wants the mod -- and so I'll stop working on it.

    If anyone would like to get involved with the modding work then let me know. There are a few straightforward tasks (such as tracing, testing, and charcodes) which could be handled by newbies - and a few tougher ones (such as rigging and shading) which might be suitable for an apprentice modder.

    Basic Parameters
    The intent is to release a single MOD file containing all of the components (bra, panties, collar, tiara). Users would load the MOD and then apply a partial charcode in order to recolor the elements to match a particular character design.

    The file would be a Loader mod. This is non-negotiable. "Bra" and "panties" mods aren't supported by the Vanilla CustomElementLoader.as code, and it's generally less fun to work under the Vanilla restrictions.

    The various elements could be used independently via moreClothing. If people are too lazy to work with moreClothing then I can just release a bunch of separate MOD files.

    Customization
    The Bra.RGB1 sliders will control the color of the bra cups and straps. The Bra.RGB2 sliders will control the color of the ribbon.

    The Panties.RGB1 sliders will control the main color of the panties. The Panties.RGB2 sliders will control the color of the ribbon. The trimline on the panties will remain white.

    Note: it is generally expected that the same color would be applied to the two ribbons. However, I'm assigning them to different sliders so that the bra and panties mods can be used independently.

    The Collar.RGB1 sliders will control the color of the choker and the middy collar. The parallel stripes on the middy collar will remain white. Incidentally - these stripes will be fairly thick. Image #2 is pretty close to what I have in mind. I like the delicate stripes shown in image #1, but they're infeasible - they'd suffer constant aliasing at normal zoom levels.

    The Collar.RGB2 sliders will control the color of the choker gem (and also the cleavage gem, backside gem, and tiara gem, if those elements are included in the project).

    Implementation Plan
    Gloves, stockings, and boots will not be included in this project. That stuff already exists and there's no reason to duplicate any of it.

    We'll pretend that the front portion of the middy collar is stitched onto the bra strap (because it requires more work to model them separately). Hence, if you increase the breast slider then the front section of the colorful middy collar will stretch and become longer (while the rear section remains the same size).

    Since it's serving as a bra-strap, the front portion of the middy collar will flex and bounce slightly in response to changes in the breast position. However, it will remain taut most of the time, because SDT physics do not allow the breasts to move in a way which avoids strain on the shoulder strap (e.g. even when the character is lying supine, gravity does not pull the breasts towards the ribcage).


    The rear portion of the middy collar will be allowed to move and flutter slightly (like a miniature cape). Therefore it will not be drawn edge-on, but will instead be curled/wrapped to fit around the ribcage -- not quite as extensively as Mike's version, though. When the character is at rest, the fabric will point towards the floor -- it will not have a "permanent dramatic wind" effect.

    I'd like the animate the two ribbons, but their canonical position is inconvenient. If the ribbon is nestled in the character's cleavage then (1: it would be mostly hidden in a profile view) and (2: its movement would be limited because it's surrounded by boobs). These problems also apply, less acutely, to the rear ribbon. Therefore I intend to shift both of the ribbons higher up -- to the highest available point on the panties, and to the bra position shown by Sailor Jupiter in reference image #2.

    If you can find high-quality side view reference images of the Sailor Scout ribbons, then please share them. These don't need to be "narikiri bra" images -- images showing the regular leotard+skirt are fine, so long as the ribbons are clearly visible and well-drawn.

    The bra and collar will include breast slider support, but I'm going to focus on medium-sized breasts similar to those shown in the reference images. The bra straps will scale to match the breast size, but the ribbon will not (so it would look enormous against a flat chest and tiny against maximum boobage). The torso strap may suffer delamination during heavy bouncing with large breasts, and it may not attach cleanly to minimum-size breasts (because the target area is narrower than the strap itself).

    The panties will be a modified version of the "Thong" underwear from vanilla SDT. They'll be edited to include white trim, and they'll use a stretchy waistband (because the back-layer-meets-chest-layer hingepoint annoys me). The result will be a slightly "highleg" design -- similar to Image #1 rather than Image #2 or #3 (whose waistlines are quite flat when seen from the front).

    The bra will be based on the SDT vanilla bra. The main "catch" here is that we can't directly reuse the straps (for boring technical reasons). The shoulder strap is irrelevant (since we're replacing it with a big colorful collar) but the torso strap will need to be reimplemented. This will probably force some changes in the shape of the bra itself (so that it meets up cleanly with the redesigned strap).

    The seamlines and gussets on the bra might be included. It depends on how much work is needed to fit the straps and correct the shading. If I'm sick of even looking at the bra by that point, then I'll just leave the bra in its normal "rounded" form.

    The cleavage jewels would be almost wholly concealed by the breasts and/or ribbons in profile view ... so I'll probably just omit them.

    The choker jewels could be included pretty easily, but there are two problems:
    • we need a reference image. I can easily draw a half-circle with some vague reflection patterns, but the images suggest that there's some kind of socket or filigree around them.
      • Note: while you're looking for this, try to find a clean highres side-view of the tiara as well (perhaps you can find a single image which includes both!). If we can get the reference artwork then I'll include the tiara - just for the sake of completeness.
      • If someone has already created a Tiara mod then please let me know ASAP so that I don't waste time on it.
    • the choker jewels are absent in some of the full-body reference images. Are they supposed to be optional? Do the girls acquire them only after "leveling up"? Or did some of the artists just forget to draw them in?
     
  7. Faceless

    Faceless Club Regular Content Creator

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    Only Usagi has a choker jewel as part of her original outfit. The others only get them as part of an upgrade. Well, Sailor V also has one, but Sailor V's outfit in general has lots more accessories than the regular senshi, since she was masquerading as the princess.

    This is about the best image I could find of Usagi's choker jewel, but (a) it's still pretty crappy resolution (b) it's from PGSM and includes a brooch that isn't present in the anime/manga until after an upgrade.

    Incidentally, those outfits are actually surprisingly bulky in live action. Ignoring the whole exposed arms and legs deal, you probably could make the argument that the torso at least is armored in addition to whatever magic shields they undoubtedly have.
     
  8. stuntcock

    stuntcock Club Regular Staff Member Moderator

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    Minor update here. I decided that working around the "limited RGB slider budget" was silly, so I added the missing buttons instead.

    [​IMG]

    I've updated the previous post. A few sentences changed from "<x> will remain white" to "<x> will use the second slider."



    [​IMG]

    The panties have their basic trim, shading, and fill (with RGB support). They lack ribbons and jewels.



    I've managed to find good references for the bra and collar at medium breast size. Additional references for the bra and collar with larger breasts would be useful. I have mediocre references for the ribbons, poor references for the tiara, and no references for the jewel setting on the choker. I won't be able to finish the project unless someone can find those images.

    I can provide two alternate jewel shapes for the choker (via alpha-channel trickery). If someone can find references for the "standard" jewels and the crecent-moon jewel, then I'll include both. If not, then I'll just draw a semicircle and slap some quick reflection glare onto it.
     
  9. Faceless

    Faceless Club Regular Content Creator

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    Here's some concept art that includes some side views of the tiara. Unfortunately, Usagi's character art doesn't include a side view of her choker.

    As for the ribbons, this image (specifically, Rei) is probably the best you'll find. Ribbons in generally are rarely shown from the side, so anything better will probably need to be drawn specifically for this.

    EDIT: Would you be willing to release the extended RGB controls as a library or something? Admittedly I've not been very active lately so I can't say that I'd use it anytime soon, but having the option would be nice.
     
  10. stuntcock

    stuntcock Club Regular Staff Member Moderator

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    It will be available soon as an standalone UI mod (not a AS3 library script or a special modder's resource or anything like that). It will probably be an incremental release of sby's allAlphaSliders mod, because there's some overlap in code and features.

    I'd like to remind everyone in advance that this mod on its own does nothing. It sends new RGB information into the game, but the vanilla content (and existing mods) do not include rgbFill2 elements. Hence, adjusting these sliders will do nothing whatsoever -- it won't crash your game, or cause graphical corruption, or reduce your FPS, but it won't do anything positive either. It definitely won't add RGB-shiftable stripes to the SDT jeans, or add fancy shading details to flat-color costume mods!

    The sliders will be useful only in conjunction with mods which are specifically designed to use them. Such as the Sailor Moon Narikiri Bra project, or Huitznahua's bikinis (the RGB2 stuff is planned for inclusion in the next update - probably in a few days).

    If you want to get a head-start on implementing this stuff in your own mods, then there's no special technique or coding needed. Just name a symbol "rgbFill2" (in the same way that you've previously used the name "rgbFill") and then publish your mod normally.
     
  11. invisibleman2212

    invisibleman2212 Potential Patron

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    Thank you stuntcock. I had given up on anyone taking my request and my own attempts ended in disaster. Your samples look very good to me and I hope that you will be able to complete it, but to help I found some more images which I hope will provide more assistance to your efforts.
     

    Attached Files:

  12. stuntcock

    stuntcock Club Regular Staff Member Moderator

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    I need anime-style side views, preferably high resolution, which show the costume being worn, and which include visual details such as shadows, highlights, and creases. You're sending me poorly-lit low-resolution frontal photographs of mannequins and display racks.

    It's fine to include cosplay stuff as a "teaser" - a way to build support for your idea and get modders interested. But this forum has only a few really talented artists who can create costume mods based on candid photographs. Many of us rely on concept artwork or carefully-selected framegrabs, which we twist to fit the SDT skeleton and then trace into vectors.

    If you omit this stuff then modders will need to spend time finding it (instead of "working on the actual project"). Aside from being an inefficient way to allocate labor, this is an impolite thing to do to someone who is trying to help you. It's generally assumed that you - the fan - will have access to specialized sources (e.g. imported DVDs, fandom imageboards, scans from your collector's artbooks, etc). If you don't provide good references, and your modder can't find them via a cursory search, then they might get frustrated and abandon the project.

    Here are some reference images that I've been using for this project:

    • 1728741
      • Good reference for the collar
      • Mediocre reference for the front ribbon (the trailing portion is too short, but I could stretch it)
      • Acceptable reference for the small-breast shape of the bra
    • 1687803
      • Mediocre reference for the rear ribbon
      • Good reference for the medium-breast shape of the bra
      • Bad reference for colors and lighting (shading is too flat; the character's long black hair casts deep shadow over too much of the costume)
    • 1581525
      • Mediocre reference for the tiara jewel (which could be copy/pasted onto the bra and panties)
      • Good animation reference (shows "fluttering" behaviour of the collar and rear ribbon)
      • Bad reference for everything else (e.g. anatomy, bra shape, front jewel, ribbon size, etc)
    • 1511719
      • Good reference for the shape of the tiara and choker
      • Mediocre reference for the jewels (good angle and lighting, but low resolution)
      • Bad reference for everything else (wrong version of the costume)
    • 1890975
      • Good context image for many aspects of the design
      • Shows the gusset and seam pattern on the bra clearly
      • This is not a traceable reference (due to high obliquity)
    • 1575118
      • Poor context image (due to weird proportions and inconsistent shadowing)
      • Shows an immodest (and uncomfortable) option for the large-breast shape of the bra
      • We might be forced to use this bra shape for technical reasons (a full-support large-breast bra would be very hard to animate)
     
  13. Faceless

    Faceless Club Regular Content Creator

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    Is there a reason that using the vanilla bra assets is unfeasible? Rather than trying to find references of different sized breasts, I mean.
     
  14. stuntcock

    stuntcock Club Regular Staff Member Moderator

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    The vanilla bra assets are partially reusable:
    • I can't find the two smallest bra keyframes in the decompiled assets
      • therefore I'd need to redraw them from reference images
      • it's easier to produce a consistent (tween-able) outline if I just redraw all of the shapes - using the original shapes as guidelines (and/or relying on new reference images)
    • the vanilla artwork includes shading, but it lacks seams and gussets
      • therefore I'd need to trace these elements anyways
      • as long as I'm tracing new details, I might as well re-trace the bra outline so that it follows the gusseted design (with bumps and ridges in the appropriate places)
    • I can't reuse the vanilla bra-straps for technical reasons (I think I mentioned them somewhere above)
      • therefore I need to use an alternate mechanism, or put a non-trivial amount of work into repairing the original mechanism
      • currently, I'm using the Rope physics system to produce bra straps
      • this approach allows for a wide range of strap shapes (including multiple-linked-strap designs like this one)
      • since the strap shapes are determined by actual physics forces (rather than being drawn in an arbitrary curved shape) they tend to show decent physicality in animation -- and also a decent amount of flexibility w/r/t breast-reshaping mods
    • the Rope-based bra straps do not support breast-slider keyframes
      • the torso band will stretch elastically (become shorter or longer), but it will not become thicker to support larger breasts
      • I could add keyframe-based slider support, but the code would be inelegant and it would require a lot of tedious fine-tuning to link it to the bra cups
      • we can achieve a reasonable compromise if we plan out the bra shapes in a way which accommodates a constant-thickness torso band. This yields a needlessly "thick" band for small breasts, and a comparatively "thin" band (with poor support and lots of sideboob) for larger breasts. For medium breasts, it will hopefully provide a golden mean.
     
  15. invisibleman2212

    invisibleman2212 Potential Patron

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    Still trying to help you find the pictures you need to help you with your references. Instead of posting pics I will just post websites where I find a collection of them. Once again I am not entirely sure what would be a good source for you and some if not all of the images you may have come across efore, but I will do what I can and hopefully some of these will help.

    here is my first link: https://chan.sankakucomplex.com/?tags=sailor_moon_narikiri_bra_set

    Hope it helps and I will keep looking, just don't be surprised if there is a lot of repetition.