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Hair request: Princess and Calamity Rose from Angel Corps

Discussion in 'SDT Requests' started by snusnumrik, Dec 4, 2014.

  1. snusnumrik

    snusnumrik Potential Patron

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    Hello

    I would like to request

    Princess hair with "Dynamic Hair" pony tail and front strands.

    Calamity Rose static hair.

    Thank You.

    [​IMG]




    More pics.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  2. snusnumrik

    snusnumrik Potential Patron

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    I was unable to find tutorial for making wavy animated hairs.
    Could someone link me one?
     
  3. stuntcock

    stuntcock Club Regular Staff Member Moderator

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    It depends on what you mean. Sclover wrote a guide for creating simple shapes (such as ponytails) which will move with semi-realistic physics: gravity, inertia, and elasticity. SDT modders refer to this as "Dynamic Hair." The hair gets pulled into a curved shape when her head moves; it will settle back into its "rest position" (usually a vertical line) shortly after the character stops moving. You need to keep her in motion to truly appreciate your work; switching on "Auto Mode" is sufficient.

    Please note that dynamic hair does not do clever things like wrap around her neck, pile up across her shoulders, drape across her breasts, etc... There are also layering concerns - you need to decide whether each strand of hair should appear behind or on top of her ear, for example -- the game cannot decide such things on its own. Therefore the Dynamic Hair technique is best used on long hair strands which are far away from the body (e.g. ponytail) or very short ones (e.g. drill hair) because then you don't need to worry about body-collisions (which tend to look bad/wrong/ugly).

    --------------

    If you mean "I want hair which glows, sparkles, twists, or moves back and forth while the character is at rest" then that's less complex but more time-consuming. When you create hair elements in Flash, they're loaded by the game as MovieClip objects. A typical hair element has only a single keyframe, so it acts as a static image. If you define additional keyframes (with motion tweens, colour changes, etc) in Flash then each hair element will begin running through its own animation sequence, as soon as it's loaded onto the stage. You can have a single animated element amongst a dozen static ones -- imagine a jeweled barrette which sparkles on every 100th frame. Or you could have a dozen different animations running simultaneously, such as a demon girl whose hair consists of several fiery shapes. Plan carefully - if you include too many animation then you may simply distract/annoy the user and it might hurt the game's FPS.

    I don't know of any tutorials for animated hair in SDT, because it doesn't really require any special techniques. I'm working on a dynamic-hair project right now, and I was able to get it to do an animated shape-change loop with ten seconds of work.

    --------------

    For this request, Princess' ponytail is a good candidate for Dynamic Hair; her sidetails would also work pretty well (although you might want to shorten them a bit - just to avoid collisions). Calamity's twin tails would be a bad candidate, because they would naturally tend to dangle "into" her shoulders rather than resting on her collarbone.

    You can get fancy with dynamic hair by asking a particular strand of hair to "pretend" that gravity is pulling towards a different direction. This could be used, for instance, to make Calamity's bangs bounce and bob inertially with her head motion, returning to a forward-ish orientation when she's at rest. However, that's a bit more complicated; I'd recommend that you try a simple ponytail first.

    --------------

    I don't see any obvious candidates for animation in your character sheet. If you think that you need it, then try sketching out or describing your goals -- one of the veteran modders may be able to offer some suggestions or guidance.

    --------------

    Neither of these techniques requires much in the way of special working techniques. If you're committed to this project, then feel free to import the images into Flash and begin tracing vectors. Just be sure to you work with several layers. That way, you'll be able to crop out a specific strand (for conversion into Dynamic Hair) without destroying half of her head in the process.
     
  4. snusnumrik

    snusnumrik Potential Patron

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    Wow I wasn't expecting such a detailed response. Thanks, like really.

    I should have checked the tutorial section better and not just the first page. My bad.

    What I meant was "Dynamic Hair." It does so much to improve long ponytails.
    Cool idea about changing gravity direction for animated braids.

    I tried making my first hair. Took something like 8 hours. Half of those I passed searching how to do "fill" in Inkscape.
    And now I realize that the .png I made had a lot of issues if I want to animate it.
    And the final result is somehow ugly, as you can see below.
    I hope someone will do a good quality version.


    In case I decide to try flash, which version should I use? Everytime I need to use some adobe program all internet is divided between "this version is old but solid" and "this new version have awesome features but your computer is too slow to run it properly."
    So which flash editor version should I use? (I'm on laptop so it is a slow computer)


    --------------


    So let me rephrase my requests:

    Princess hair with "Dynamic Hair" pony tail and front strands.

    Calamity Rose static hair.

    Cowboy hat as a separate .swf. I'm pretty curious how would the dangling back hat look, a static png with one pivot around the back of the head.




    P.S. thanks again.
    P.P.S. Does the Borat swimsuit mod exist?
     

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  5. stuntcock

    stuntcock Club Regular Staff Member Moderator

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    • A few suggestions:
      • avoid gradients
        • anime-style drawing relies on a restricted colour palette because the human eye/brain is "generous."
        • When we see a flat color with two related shades (highlight and shadow), we automatically understand that we're seeing an approximation rather than a photorealistic image.
        • We know that highlights aren't hard blobs; they're diffuse smears with brighter centers. But if you draw a hard blob then the viewer will "give you credit" for the whole highlight (so long as position and size are reasonable).
        • If you actually draw a diffuse smear (e.g. a gradient) then the viewer will not give you credit; you're telling him "this is exactly how the light reflects from this object." You need to be a kickass visual artist to make it look convincing (or you must work from an excellent high-resolution reference image).
        • And even if your gradient is perfect, it "sticks out like a sore thumb" because it's surrounded by stuff (skin, clothing, background) which uses the [flat+shadow+highlight] restricted palette. So your effort is usually wasted.
      • use a thicker brush (or lineweight) for the perimeter of the hairstyle, and a thinner one for internal details (establishing plaits and folds within the hair)
      • use a brighter color for the tiara to suggest metallic lustre
        • if you can find a way to squeeze it in, try to include a few straight lines. The tiara feels too curvy and organic at the moment; ideally it should stand out from the hair by its shape (instead of just by its colour).
      • the bottom-rear of the hairstyle feels "off"
        • It's a bit too far away from the rear of the skull and it isn't immediately obvious why it wouldn't sag downwards. It looks almost as though it's being gathered into a bun.
        • I *think* that the character design calls for it to be gathered into a large hairclasp, but the hairclasp itself is mostly obscured by the hair bulging around it. At first glance, we see only a small hairclasp for the topside hair.
        • Maybe grab a few more reference shots of the character; try doing some minor stretch/squash/rotation until it feels right.
      • I think that the hairclasp is supposed to be a "U" shape and the main reference image shows it obliquely (rather than side-on, as would be expected for stuff in SDT). Need a few more shots of the character to verify.
      • the hairclasp shouldn't be the fulcrum-point for the ponytail; it should form part of the perimeter. It's currently too far "back", with part of the upper ponytail being between the clasp and the skull (which isn't sensible).
      • There are "shadowing" gradient blobs at some spots - outside the perimeter of the hair itself. These are unnecessary.
      The PNG is sufficient for end-users and for archiving, but if you're planning for active artistic collaboration then it's a good idea to share files in a "richer" format (such as .fla, .svg, .xcf, or even .psd).

      The hairstyle that I'm working on right now started as a single PNG image; it's been vector traced and sliced into 20 separate parts (probably 30 before it's finished). This was tedious "prep work" for me: stuff that had to be done before I could get to the fun part (wiring sections together and applying physics parameters).

      Let's imagine that I could pick up your work in high resolution vector form and immediately start rigging and animating the components. Great! I'll be happy to contribute and it'll probably be finished in an evening.

      Let's imagine that I get a low-res PNG. I'll have to spend hours tracing it (repeating the work that you already did!) and splitting it out into layers. Or I can work with it as-is, knowing that my careful animation work will look like crap because I'm animating a raster image (giant pixels! aliased edges!). Either way, I'm less likely to start the project and more likely to get frustrated and abandon it halfway through.
      The newest one that you have a license for. I'm running an older version of CC from an enterprise home-use arrangement, and I'm missing a few nice features (variable-width lines :'(). You can get an evaluation copy of the latest-and-greatest, but it may not be worthwhile unless you're seriously planning to buy it. If not... then you might as well pick up GIMP/Inkscape and FlashDevelop. Get accustomed to those -- instead of having to re-learn GUIs in a month when your trial time expires.

      Upload a vector trace of the hat and I'll take a shot at this one. There's a scripting technique which will allow us to simulate a rigid object which has an elastic connection to the main body (sort of like jigglebones in video games).
      There are technical challenges related to variable breast sizing as well as breast motion. Creating a full sling bikini (which connects to the pelvis, visually separates from the midriff, and animates as if it is under tension) would require some fancy coding. Iago has a "sling shirt" which isn't a perfect match but it might suffice for now.
     
  6. snusnumrik

    snusnumrik Potential Patron

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    Thanks for the tips and advice on art.

    I will not post the .svg of the my hairs, because I don't like them. So I will try to redraw them and post the .svg then.


    You are willing to animate the hat? Great. Now it's time to me to start drawing it and get more practice.

    Probabaly I will not post anything in the next few days.


    Yeah now I see the rpoblems the Sling shirt has. Yet it is a better aproximation of the character, ty.
     
  7. snusnumrik

    snusnumrik Potential Patron

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    Oh I have done the static hat.

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    How does an artist draw shadows? It is hard thinking on how the hell do light fall on hat borders. Searching reference pics help but not a lot since rarely you see a pic where the light id from the same direction you want it to be.

    Amd that not including that I should probably add the shadows from the girl!

    And obviously first I drew the hat and then I discvered that such a shape didn't quite fit the gamegirl proportions (her nape goes back for miles)

    Anyway this is the svg file, hope to see how you will animate it.

    The hat I used in the first pic is scaled by 80%
     

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  8. snusnumrik

    snusnumrik Potential Patron

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    wait.


    That hat sucks.

    Now I'm working on the second version of the hat.
    wait for the second version
     
  9. snusnumrik

    snusnumrik Potential Patron

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    new hat.

    I didn0t resist and tried the gradient since the original std used it.

    it is mono color,

    [​IMG]
     

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  10. aztlan

    aztlan Swell Supporter

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    That second hat is really nicely done - the shading looks quite good. hats aren't really my thing but I hope someone does this for you. A version where it is on top of their head too would be nice - maybe combine it with some dialogue (slap or head grab animation?) to move it from one position to the other...
     
  11. Twycross448

    Twycross448 Potential Patron

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    Ohh, Angel Corps. Now that is an idea I can support with a heartfelt:

    I second this!

    Although truth be told, I would request Bubblegum on top of the two you mentioned, as I think she is the cutest of the bunch. ^_^"

    So,

    TL:DR

    Second! + Bubblegum
     
  12. stuntcock

    stuntcock Club Regular Staff Member Moderator

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    The gradient-fill was lost when I imported from SVG to FLA. Boo. I'll animate the flat-colour version for now -- we can always copy-paste a new hat sprite into the appropriate segment of the animated version. If you're happy with the flat-color animated version then we can either figure out some way of getting the gradients in, or I can just re-draw them in Flash and you can decide whether they're close enough.

    In my earlier post I mentioned the importance of layers. You've done well here, but you haven't gone quite far enough. Here's my version:
    • hat (brown fill + black border)
    • hat highlights (gradient)
    • fixtures (grey ovals)
    • background string (attaches to rear fixture point and to a floating point near her neck)
    • HER BODY LAYER (this isn't part of the hat; I'm just showing that the two strings must be on different layers because the neck lies between them)
    • front string (attaches to front fixture point and to the floating point near her neck)

    You may be asking "why should the fixture-point be on a separate layer from the string? They're always connected to each other!" The answer is that the string may need to rotate w/r/t the hat (as the hat bounces up and down w/r/t her neck and torso), but the fixture point will always maintain a fixed orientation w/r/t the hat. It's sewn into the leather of the hat (I assume) so we don't expect it to bend or twist.

    It's a very minor detail, and it didn't cost me any extra work or anything -- it's just something to keep in mind when you're drawing a shape which is inclusion in a complex animated scene. This is also an advantage of working directly in Flash - the Flash templates allow you to draw/trace shapes in the context of the body reference images, which reminds you forces you to plan out the layer interactions: "this part is behind the neck", "this part is in front of the ear", etc...

    Bubblegum's hairstyle has a lot of small loose strands which would be fun to animate. I should be able to start on that in about two weeks, assuming that noone else wants to claim it first.

    However, since you're making the request I will ask you for additional reference shots. In particular:
    • a zoomed-in or high-res profile shot of the hair would be nice (not mandatory though)
    • the hair is somewhat disorderly; the background (right side) probably has some details which aren't obvious in the reference shot. An image of the right side would be nice to have (not mandatory though).
    • the lighting on the reference shot isn't ideal; it leaves most of the hairstyle in shadow. It you can provide another reference shot with top-down lighting (or any sort of "outdoor" scene) then we can distribute the highlights and shadows more evenly. The hair will seem to "fit" better with the lighting of the scene (as revealed by highlight patters on the skin) and it will give the viewer a better impression of the hair's 3-dimensional shape and volume.
      • For comparison, look at the SDChan hair. The lighting is essentially "top-down," most of the highlights are at the sides, and only ~30% of the total area is shadowed.
    • additional shots of the hair ornaments are needed; any angle is fine. Right now we have no view of the ponytail holder (scrunchie?) and only a rough view of the metallic barrette above her ear.
    • some details of the body are obscured in the reference shot. I don't intend to create the outfit but it would be a good idea to provide shots if you're hoping to see another modder take it up.
      • need a shot of the choker - is it part of the swimsuit neck or does it just sit very close to it?
      • need a reference shot for the portion of the swimsuit which is currently obscured by her left arm
      • need a clean shot from the rear to establish how the side-loops connect to the swimsuit and fanny pack - multiple postures would be ideal, since we need to know how it's fastened and whether it needs to change shape when she's standing, sitting, lying on her front, lying on her back, etc
      • need a clean shot of the fanny pack itself
      • her right arm appears to include an armlet or very large bracelet - need images
      • additional shots of the anklets would be useful - are they meant to be stretch-fitted (fabric/leather) or rigid (metal)? Are there any jewels or embellished details in the clasp?
      • shoes - are her feet really supposed to be that small, or was this just an exagerration by the artist?
     
  13. Twycross448

    Twycross448 Potential Patron

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    I'll see what I can do, but since she was a relatively new addition, and the original artist has stopped working on the Angel Corps a long time ago, I am not positive I can deliver on all of those. Maybe there are good pics of her from other artists, I haven't checked that yet. I'll take a look as soon as I have some time and get everything I can find about her together.
    And thanks.

    EDIT:

    Alright, alright had some time and looked around.
    Sadly, it seems there is very little to find. I looked on the official Angel Corps website as well as on Deviant Art, Hentai Foundry, Google Image Search, Gelboruu and Rule34.xxx, but all I could find was 14 Images by Scribblekid himself and 1 Fanart by another artist.

    I have packed up all I found into a .7z and uploaded it.
    Here is the link: -> Clicky me
    WARNING: images contain heavy gore and sexual violence (amongst other things) - DO NOT OPEN if that offends you

    (Note: due to the fact that Angel Corps was donation/comission based, she wears different/modified hairstyles and outifts in some of the pics (depending on what the person comissioning that piece wanted), but I still included them. The majority of the files has her in her canon outfit/style though.)

    Right now, I am afraid this is the best I can do. My apologies.


    EDIT 2:

    After doing some digging, it seems that ScribbleKid has quit being an artist alltogether back in 2011/2012 due to being harassed by certain people/interest groups that disliked the theme many of his drawings/comics had.

    Here is a quote from a user on his DeviantArt profile:
    Other sources indicate the same. So I assume that we have to make do with that little we have or simply axe the idea due to no viable source material. :-\
     
  14. stuntcock

    stuntcock Club Regular Staff Member Moderator

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    Thanks for putting this material together. However, I will ask you to please edit your post to include a warning that the linked archive includes extreme sexual violence, gore, dismemberment, and murder. You don't need to apologize for it or censor yourself; just give people fair warning about what they're going to see.

    I didn't do any actual independent research about what "Angel Corps" is when I offered to help out on this project. When you mentioned "torches and pitchforks" I assumed that it was a standard feminist critique about disempowered female characters being sexually exploited. I wasn't prepared for what I actually found.
    What you've provided is sufficient for me to tackle the hairstyle. There are a few variants (as you mentioned); I don't intend to model all of them. Instead, I'll create one "average" hairstyle which borrows a few interesting bits from each of the variants. Probably slightly longer than shoulder-length, simply because very long hairstyles run into additional problems with collision.

    There's certainly enough material for another modder to do the costume. Those images cleared up a few ambiguous details. For example, the choker apparently is attached to swimsuit neck and forms part of the closure). The outfit would probably exclude a few minor details, such as the fanny pack, for which we have too few references. No worries there.

    Calamity's hat is still coming along; progress has been a bit slow because I'm still adding features to the "hair physics" library.

    The only costume element which presents an obvious challenge is Princess' sling bikini. And that's not a concern about inadequate reference material; it's simply a technical problem of "SDT handles tops and bottoms (and bras) differently, so it's tough to get a single piece of clothing to cling tightly to the shoulders, pelvis, and breasts without touching the abdomen."
     
  15. Twycross448

    Twycross448 Potential Patron

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    My apologies for that. I was under a bit of time constraint and sometimes tend to forget that other people have different likes/dislikes/don't cares than me. Sorry again. I added such a warning now.


    Sounds good. Certainly better than I expected. But then again, I am no artist, so I couldn't possible judge the quality of reference shots aside from the usual Request rules. ^_^"

    If the rumours on the web are to be believed, in the end it was so bad that some even harassed him in the real world, both at his workplace and his home. That was suposedly the last bit that made him decide to just leave it all behind completely.
    Dunno if that is true, but if yes, it is crossing a line in my opinion.

    Anyways, cheers and happy holidays. I'm off to catch shuteye.
     
  16. snusnumrik

    snusnumrik Potential Patron

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    Here is ths svg of the second hat with no gradients.

    You should probably play gradients in flash, the high light on the inside of the hat are too bright right now.
    Play with colors as much as you want. I'm not sure the ones I choes are good.

    Sorry for requesting Angel Corps without explaining what they were. And thanks for continuing your work despite everything.




    About the sling bikini:
    Is it possible to make an object in flash that draws 2 lines from 2 fixed points to a point P and fill the space in between with green? The point P reads the position of the bottom and changes its own cordinates accordingly?
     

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  17. stuntcock

    stuntcock Club Regular Staff Member Moderator

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    Nicely done; the two shades complement each other well.
    I need to clean up the edges a bit; some slight gaps appeared during SVG -> FLA import. Once that's done I'll experiment with gradient effects. I'm not certain that they're actually needed, but I'll publish the SWF in flat-color and gradient versions so that you can use whichever one you prefer in your game.

    The actual animation work is behind schedule. Mea culpa. Every time that I start to make progress on it, I discover another minor feature that's missing from the physics library. In this case, it was "I want the object to be anchored to the neck, but I want it to inherit static rotation values from the torso." Here's a sample of the current WIP:

    [​IMG]

    There's one important flaw in the animation (which I should have predicted): we can't consistently align the "rear" string with a visible attachment point. What we can do, though, is alter the hat design (artwork) so that the two strings emerge from knotted grommets in the outer brim (rather than the grey attachment points near the crown). This approach is used in the animation sample above (foreground only), but you can't see the grommet very well. Here's a real-world example:

    [​IMG]

    This approach has a few advantages:
    • the hat shape is very foreshortened; there isn't really enough "room" for a second (symmetrically-placed) copy of the grey attachment point. If we remove the grey attachment points altogether we can avoid the problem of "how do we fit the second one?" or "how do we visually explain the hat's motion using only a single string?"
    • if the string is knotted at the brim, then the background grommet point is implicitly hidden by the shape of the hat. Therefore we don't need the background string to mate with it perfectly. So long as we can get the background string to intersect the background brim (and then vanish behind it), the hat will look reasonable.
    • the grey attachments provide contrast against the earth-toned hat (which attracts the eye) but they aren't visually interesting. There's no eyelet or pivot or stitching or anything. If we use a grommet then we can draw a simple knot (or just toss in a few brownish curves to convey the idea). Since the knot introduces no new colours, it's less likely to attract the viewer's attention and leave them disappointed.
    • having a pivot point closer to the edge of the hat makes it easier to animate
    No problem. There's nothing wrong with requesting a character whose Google results are questionable -- I'm sure that I could find some terrifying stuff even in a search for "Spongebob Squarepants" or "My Little Pony." I was just surprised to see extreme imagery appear unannounced in the request thread.

    Modders usually don't care where reference images come from; they're more interested in details like:
    • does the image show a clean profile?
    • does it have the correct lighting and shadow details?
    • is the resolution high enough for accurate tracing?
    • does this hairstyle/outfit present a technical challenge?
    • does it include any special details which would be fun to implement?
    • is the requester going to stick around and contribute, or is he going to disappear (and then ḅump the thread six months later)?
    Yes; Flash can do this very easily. From there, it may seem obvious that we can "just draw a green fill from pelvis to nipple" but that isn't actually foolproof. What if she's sporting A-cups? Now you need to have a fallback policy which wraps the bikini from pelvis to ribcage whenever the breasts aren't prominent enough. And what if her arms are in the "Back" position -- do we deflect the sling inwards (so that it traces a contour near her spine) or do we stretch it outwards to make room for her wrists?

    It's great that you're trying to find solutions, but this particular costume really does pose a technical challenge -- even for experienced modders. If you're committed to the idea then send off PMs to some of the active clothing modders (or post in their threads). You might find one who's willing to add the project to their backlog, and from there you may be able to speed things up if you offer to help out by finding high-quality reference images and tracing vectors.
     
  18. Twycross448

    Twycross448 Potential Patron

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    A small note from me I forgot to mention previously. Bubblegums appearance in the "Two New Dolls" series is her original canon appearance. All the the other (loose) files in the main directory are variants. Since you intend to mix it up anyways, it does not have much of a bearance on anything, but I do think I should still make you aware of this.

    Cheers!
     
  19. PenKnight

    PenKnight Swell Supporter

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    Well, there Is a little more to the story actually, fom what I can gather...

    Dave Cheung, ak Scribblekid, is also known for being the web artist behind Chugworth Academy and Boss Noodle. His attitude towards even his own fanbase can be described best as 'antagonistic'. His most notable controvertial move was the webcomic he drew involving Jade Raymond, who at the time was one of the producers behind "Assassin's Creed". The fallout from that one landed Something Awful in some pretty damn hot water with Ubi Soft. And his reaction to it was, well...let's be blunt he was an asshole about it. And he tended to do anything to insure any negative mention of US Angel Corps get removed from certain places. (Like Bad Comics Wiki and TV Tropes.)

    So him quitting web art is not surprising to me, especially when he wasn't exactly that nice of a guy to begin with and didn't seem to react well when people called him out on the stuff he pulled. There was one other hair done here of another Angel Corps character, but I forgot who made it.

    (Sorry for the mini info dump/pipe bomb, but I just had to put in my two cents on the guy and shed a little light)
     
  20. Twycross448

    Twycross448 Potential Patron

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    Which is always apreciated. :)
    Though truth be told, I have no idea what is true and what is not. I only stated what little I had learned myself from various sources.
    Since I do not know the person behind the ScribbleKid persona personally, I think taking everything rumoured on the web, good or bad, with a grain of salt is the best course of action. In all likelyhood, the truth is, as usual, somewhere in the middle.

    And let's be frank here, most everyone using the interwebs these days behaves like a jackass every now and then. Be it on some forum, on Twitter, FaceBook, Tumblr, some MMO or in guest books... the list goes on. 8)