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Elsa's dress for "Him"

Discussion in 'Loader Requests' started by Pinkestpunk, Aug 18, 2015.

  1. Pinkestpunk

    Pinkestpunk Potential Patron

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    As you can probably tell I'm pretty new. I've actually only made one post, requesting this dress from someone specifically but they said to put it on the request board so, I'll put it here.

    Basically Elsa's dress but for the "him" model.
    Gotta get that futa yo.

    [​IMG]

    Also message me if I'm doing this request thing wrong. I'm pretty sure I'm right.
     
  2. stuntcock

    stuntcock Club Regular Staff Member Moderator

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    Green items require your attention or input.



    Dante made two dresses for Elsa: the coronation gown and the ice queen gown. Your reference image seems to be the latter (please confirm), but it would end up looking different from Dante's design. The dress has a notable slit on its right side, which would be hidden when the dress is fit onto the futa him model (because we see the left side of his body). The shoes would also be invisible.

    Do you want to adhere to the original costume design? or do you want to move the slit to the left side so that the calves and shoes are more visible? Alternatively, we could alter the cut of the dress (e.g. so that it's calf-length instead of floor-length) but this option would require new reference artwork.

    The futa him model has a flat-footed stance. If you want to include high-heeled shoes then we'd need to either reshape the feet or reshape the calves. If the feet will be hidden by the skirt then the question is moot.



    The most interesting part of this project would be animating the dress -- because its long skirt ought to sway back and forth (instead of being rigidly attached to her thighs) and the trailing section ought to puddle against the floor. Unfortunately, the SDT dynamic-animation technique works only with opaque elements. So we'd need to either omit the translucent drape, or forget about animating the dress.



    We can directly reuse the bodice of Dante's dress, but it gets tricky when we reach the hips. Dante's dress is permanently folded into a kneeling/puddled shape. We can't simply "stand it up" - it's necessary to draw a new skirt in the standing position. Usually, this is done by tracing a reference image which shows the correct pattern of pleats and lighting. A modder can then reshape the traced image and rig it onto the limbs of the SDT model. Do you have any experience with vector tracing? Would you be willing to trace the necessary parts of the Elsa dress?



    You haven't mentioned how you expect the dress to accommodate the actual futa aspect. We could just ignore it -- draw the dress, allow the penis to poke out, and pretend that there's a convenient hole in the skirt. Or we could redraw the front of the skirt so that it's hiked up around the character's hips. The latter approach would require new reference artwork.



    Dante's design does not include a "glove" shape for the palm or the back of the hand (it includes edge-on views, because those are the ones most often used by the girl in SDT). If you want gloves on futa-Elsa then you'll need to provide reference images of the palm and back of the hand.



    It's possible to attach a head to the futa him body, but we don't yet have one for Elsa. If you want it, then you'll need to do some work:
    • choose a hairstyle (presumably one of Dante's Elsa hairs, but the important thing is to be specific -- include a direct file link if possible)
    • tweak the customization settings (e.g. eyeshadow, skin tone, etc) in SDT until they're exactly right, and then generate a charcode and post it. Just to be safe, provide a screenshot as well.
      • I'm serious about the "exactly right" bit. This step requires a bunch of modding work, so don't assume that you can half-ass it and then do a lot of back-and-forth revisions.
    Please remember that the head-modding stuff is an afterthought rather than a core feature of the game. These heads lack the expressiveness and interactions of the SDT girl's head -- they won't look around, blush, move their mouths when they're supposed to be speaking, or even blink (unless they're specially programmed to do so). They're not even visible in normal scenes, because the default camera cuts his body off at the shoulder. Nonetheless, a head mod still requires a bunch of work from a modder. Please don't ask a custom head unless you've played around with these mods and understand their limitations.
     
  3. Pinkestpunk

    Pinkestpunk Potential Patron

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    Damn I didn't expect someone to get back this detailed.

    WEll I'll answer everything in green then.

    It is the Ice queen gown, and not the Coronation one.

    Shifting the slit to the left would probably be the best course of action.

    I believe that when I use it, I already have high heeled shoes.
    Let me get a picture.
    [​IMG]
    It seems I already have high heeled shoes
    But if you're talking about including the high heels in the dress, as the dress will be open on the left side, it'd probably be best to reshape the foot I think.

    I am ok with omiting the translucent drape

    This is where I can see a problem because I have no vector training. I'd have to learn from scratch what Im doing to try to redraw or animate her dress.

    I don't think I've ever seen Elsa hike up her skit. And I don't know where I can find a reference for a hiked up skirt, specifically with a penis poking out. I guess the best second option would be to just go with a hole for it to poke out of.
    Is it possible that the slit on the left of the dress, is pulled sideways to allow the penis to poke out?

    There would be no need for gloves as Elsa's ice queen dress has no gloves. It does have long sleeves, I don't know if that counts as "gloves"

    And the head sounds like a lot of work for little gain. Most poses that I use don't show the head so I'd find it as pointless.

    I think I filled out everything that need be, Anything else that you need I will gladly try and help you.
    Thanks for the detailed response Stunt.
     
  4. stuntcock

    stuntcock Club Regular Staff Member Moderator

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    Oops - you're right of course. I had overlooked that because we don't have a FLA template for the high-heeled stance. It appears to use vanilla anatomy shapes, so it shouldn't present any serious challenges during coding.

    If you want to accommodate the high-heeled stance, then we must use a dress design which puts the slit on the character's right side (i.e. the background side). Please disregard my previous suggestion about mirroring the design. The left-side slit would be much harder to animate due to the excessive prominence of the right knee.

    We can probably assume that Dante's shoes will fit, although they'd still need a few graphical tweaks (because the perspective needs to be adjusted, and the reflection shading is in the wrong place).

    You don't need to animate it; that's a more complex task which requires some AS3 work.

    But I'm not going to trace the dress for you. My goal is to get people involved in modding so that they can give back to the SDTMods forum. I can help you learn the software and techniques, but you'll need to put in the effort of actually tracing the paths and adding the highlight and shading fills. Before doing so, you'll need to find a high-resolution side-view reference image.

    So: you can either volunteer to trace the skirt, or wait for someone else to work on your request.

    This is one reason why I'm asking you to get involved with the tracing.

    If you start from a Disney reference image then you'd need to make significant changes in order to fit it onto a futa character. You're free to do so, of course -- one advantage of vector graphics is that you can rearrange the components without creating obvious stretch marks or seams. However, you'll still need to apply some artistic judgment because the reshaping work around the thighs and hips might force you to also rearrange some of the creases and highlights along the skirt.

    However, you might choose to look for a different reference image -- a more sexualized fanart image in which the slit is much higher (e.g. showing off part of her thigh even when she's standing still). Here's an example of the shape I have in mind, although it's not a usable reference -- it shows the wrong angle and there's too little detail in the creases and shading. If you found such an image and traced it, then you wouldn't need to do as much followup work on the skirt. But the fanart image might be less accurate (w/r/t the original character design) and you'd need to spend time finding a good image (because most artwork is frontal or oblique -- side views are rare).

    So ... it's a trade-off. You can put the project on-hold and search for an ideal reference image, or you can just start tracing and then spend time afterwards reshaping the finished artwork. You can spend time finding an image with detailed shading and creases (which will require extra time to trace and animate), or you can choose a more simplistic design (which is easier to turn into an SDT mod, but which may be less enjoyable to actually use in-game because of the reduced fidelity).

    Yep; I was referring to the portion of her sleeves which extends across her hands.



    One final thing, which I should have mentioned earlier - please talk to Dante. We need to get his permission before doing any derivative work with his mods, and if he's willing to share his FLA source file then we should use it (because it's more accurate and convenient than extracting shapes from his SWFs).
     
  5. Pinkestpunk

    Pinkestpunk Potential Patron

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    Ok I understand what that means, it's pretty simple. Slit on right side.
    Now, I'm new to this game and this website. But I'd like to take it as an interesting challenge to learn all about this.

    So I'll volunteer to try to make the dress. Of course, I'm probably going to fuck it up horribly. If someone much more skilled would like to try to make the dress, go ahead, if yours is better I'll use yours but it'll be fun to try to make it myself.


    I'm probably going to first learn how to vector at all, since again, I'm very new to this and only know about half the shit you're saying.
    Is there a FAQ or tutorial page I can go to on vectoring?

    And yeah I think I'd like the part that extend to her hands. Looks Hella pretty.

    And again, I'm new to this site so, I saw Dante's lovely ladies post, and I kinda thought he was like a mod or something I didn't know I could just talk to him. So I'll try contacting him.

    Again, if someone wants to come in and make the dress, go ahead, yours will probably be better then mine I have no doubt. But I'm going to try.

    So far all Ive done is make dialogs for fun.
     
  6. stuntcock

    stuntcock Club Regular Staff Member Moderator

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    Here's a tutorial which focuses on hairstyles. The key difference is that you'll be tracing onto a blank background instead of a head template, but the tools and techniques are still applicable. Ignore any mentions of Photoshop; when you're happy with the vector file you can sent it to me for animation instead of trying to clean it up and "publish" it as a PNG.

    If you find that it's confusing to work without a template, then you can grab a screenshot from SDT itself (e.g. a naked futa girl against a white background), import the screenshot onto your Inkscape canvas, import the dress image on top of it, stretch/rotate the dress until it roughly fits, and then trace it.



    Here's an excerpt from a PM that I sent someone a while ago (also focused on hairstyles):
    • Install Inkscape
      • There are fancier programs available, but most of them are licensed software and so you'd need to setup a temporary trial (and by the time you've learned to use the program, it will stop working!).
      • Inkscape is free, so it's a good choice if you plan to trace more artwork in the future.
    • Import the raster image. You may need to use the PNG rather than the PSD.
      • Note: please post your reference image(s) before you begin tracing. I need to ensure that I'll be able to animate the design. It would be a shame to spend hours of drawing work on an intricate dress, but then discover that we can't actually convert it into a SDT mod file.
    • Trace every line and curve that you see in the raster image. This is done with the "Paths" tool. Essentially, you define each curve by dragging out a pair of tangents.
      • Note: please remember to OMIT the translucent cape from the Elsa dress. We can't animate it, so there's no point in tracing it.
    • If you're having trouble, or you're not sure how to start, then just run a Google search. You can find plenty of tutorials on Youtube.
    • It's important that you trace all of the details.
      • The external border of the hair? Trace it.
      • Internal borderline where two different colours meet? Trace it.
      • Internal black line showing where two strands of hair meet? Trace it.
      • Shadows and highlights? Trace their edges.
      • Note: in this case, you can slack off on the upper section (anything above the waist) because we should be able to simply reuse that section from Dante's mod. Similarly, the sleeves can be skipped. The tracing work should focus on the skirt - from waist to floor.
    • Once all of the paths have been traced, you can fill the spaces between them with the appropriate colours.
      • It's possible to use gradient fills to create soft-edged highlights and shadows. However, they don't import cleanly from InkScape into Flash. Feel free to play around with gradients to learn how they work, but please don't rely on them for this project. Flat-colour highlights are fine.
    • An animator would usually demand the the image be broken up into many separate layers. I won't insist on it for a first-attempt project, but it's something to keep in mind (especially if it's mentioned in the tutorials that you watch). I certainly won't complain if you do include multiple layers in your file.
      • Note: in this case, I would prefer at least 2-3 layers. "Fabric which appears in front of the penis"and "fabric which appears behind the penis" is an obvious separation. If you find it convenient to use lots of layers then that's okay -- I'll just merge any superfluous stuff before animating it.
    • You can send me a partial file if you want to "check that you're on the right track." If you get stuck, or if you find the work tedious and decide to take a break, you don't need to apologize or make excuses to me. There's no deadline. I have other projects to keep me busy in the meantime :)
     
  7. Pinkestpunk

    Pinkestpunk Potential Patron

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    Well I've just woken up and decided to instead of googling stuff, just watch the file I had already downloaded and screen shoot the movies. I've seen it like 13 times so I don't mind watching it again. Don't judge me.

    Puush, which is the program I use to save stuff on my screen, uses jpgs, but It's not hard to turn a jpg into a PNG I think.
    [​IMG] This is kinda behind her, not full sideways so don't know how much use it could be
    [​IMG] This is sideways but, the translucent dress is pretty fucking thick. Makes it kinda hard to see her back, ass, or lower parts of waist.
    [​IMG] This would be useful for the arms I think, only if we can't use Dante's files tho. Speaking of Dante's files, I was looking *cough* at Elsa's dress that he made and it's fairly translucent itself too. Can I ask how he does that? It might be cool to do for this model too, but if it's kinda hard I don't think I can do it yet. I also noticed the heels are different then the basic heels I have, how do you take those heels and put them on a standing person?
    [​IMG] Pretty much full frontal, not very useful I would think, but good to have around for a reference.
    [​IMG] First time you see Elsa without her veil, but it's not fully from the side sadly. Still seems like it could be useful.
    [​IMG] Fairly good from the side view I've found.
    [​IMG] These are all just screen shots from the movie I've gotten through so far. I could use other sources to get pictures but I want to see if I got it down on what pictures I SHOULD be looking for in the first place.
     
  8. stuntcock

    stuntcock Club Regular Staff Member Moderator

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    For screenshots: the file format isn't important. However, you should take a look at the Reference Shot Guide. The key idea is that we need cartoon-style images with a limited color palette. A screenshot from a high-quality 3d animation is difficult to trace because its lighting patterns are "smooth" or "soft-edged" - they would need to be reproduced as gradient fills. In the case of Frozen, the clothing is also simulated with a high degree of physics detail -- which means that the fabric creases change from shot to shot, and so it's very difficult to achieve a consistent trace.

    By contrast, a screenshot from an anime OVA will tend to have sharply-defined areas of highlight and shadow (as well as a thick black border to separate foreground and background elements wherever they overlap each other). These details can easily be traced, leaving you with a bunch of connect-the-dots shapes. If you hide the reference image layer in Inkscape and just look at your paths, then the shapes will look completely ridiculous. That's normal! Each shape can then be filled in with an appropriate color via the Paint Bucket tool, and suddenly your brain says "I recognize that - it's an anime hairstyle!" Once it's rigged onto the skeleton and animated, the eye tends to "forgive" minor flaws in the artwork -- such as the fact that the highlights on the dress don't align perfectly with the highlights on the girl's skin. Don't worry about that stuff; just try to find a good reference image (or a few of them!) and see whether you can trace it in a way that might fit into an SDT screenshot.



    Anyways, the point is that you should be looking for fanart images which use a cartoon or anime artstyle. If the image has a flat-color background (e.g. pure white) or completely transparent PNG background then that's great -- it means fewer distractions while you're trying to trace the patterns.

    If you look carefully at the fanart image which I posted earlier, you'll notice that it uses only 5 colors for the dress. It's not an appropriate reference image (because wrong camera angle, and too little detail in the fabric creases) but this is the sort of artstyle which would be easiest to trace and animate. Here's another example - wrong angle and too little fabric detail, but it uses a restricted color palette and a very clean backgorund. And a counter-example - beautiful detail on the fabric, but the shading is too complex and the fabric shapes would take ages to trace (and they would be damned near impossible to animate).

    Reminder: images which downplay (or omit) the translucent cape are preferable, because we won't be able to include it in the final mod.

    You can hold onto those movie screenshots, though -- they may be useful when we talk about fitting the dress onto the SDT skeleton, or when giving feedback on the animation behaviour (e.g. "the dress should slide like this when she bends her knee forward" or "the hemline should be two inches below her feet instead of six").
     
  9. Pinkestpunk

    Pinkestpunk Potential Patron

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    Sorry if I seem slow to responding to stuff.

    Now while searching through my own folder of fanart I've collected, it's... rather huge.
    I found this
    [​IMG]
    This seems kinda useful because it shows the split being in the front.
    Would that be possible? Probably need to hoist it up over the dick to make it visible.

    The image you linked, this one
    [​IMG]
    Was also useful as it seems to be split in the front. If the slit was moved there, this looks like it would be a good image to trace from.
    [​IMG]
    This seems like a good one, but the slit is on the side. Is it possible, or would it look bad, if you just coloured in the area where the slit in, with the rest of the colour of the dress? Now that I'm saying it it sounds like it would.

    As well as, I think I said it before but I don't remember seeing a response.
    Dante's costume for Elsa, the part above the waist, is see through. If I were to use his above waist and add a below waist it would need to match, or recolour the upper part to match.
     
  10. stuntcock

    stuntcock Club Regular Staff Member Moderator

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    Maybe, but it's not really useful to talk about the skirt shape until we have at least one traceable reference image. We can then argue about whether to reshape the image (before tracing), or reshape the vectors afterwards, or merge two different reference images for different parts of the skirt, or deliberately fill in gaps (or enlarge them) instead of tracing them faithfully, and so on...

    More importantly, we can show what we mean visually (or even using an in-game demo) instead of using words like "hoist" and "split" and "stretch" which are sometimes ambiguous.

    That image could work as a tracing reference, but I'd suggest that you keep looking. The skirt is visually simple - there are few creases or folds. Compare it with the creased and puddled design of Dante's skirt ... this one just isn't very interesting to look at. The slit is also on the "wrong" side (foreground instead of background) so it would require extra work during tracing to compensate. And the girl wearing it is very slender; it wouldn't fit onto the SDT girl's body unless we stretched it out around the hips and buttocks.

    Not useful to discuss it, since the image isn't traceable (much too simple visually, and the proportions are wrong/distorted because it's just a sketch).

    If you're referring to the translucent cape, then it's a separate component in Flash so we can easily exclude it -- no special "matching" work would be needed.

    If you're referring to the actual bodice of the dress then I don't understand. It looks opaque to me.

    If you mean that the traced skirt will need to be color-match to the bodice and sleeves of Dante's design then yes, you're correct. It's fairly easy to do this in Flash, so don't worry about matching the colors exactly in Inkscape -- just focus on finding a good reference image and tracing its paths accurately.
     
  11. Pinkestpunk

    Pinkestpunk Potential Patron

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    So I've found people seem to have a fear of drawing Elsa from the side.
    Or above the waist.

    I've found like.. 3 and I don't even know if they're good.
    I tried attaching them to take up less room in my post.
     

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