Soul Calibur Series (2 Viewers)

bryanthunder

Ryonani Teamster
Joined
Feb 23, 2010
Honestly the best part about SC5 is going to be the XNALara models people pull. Other than that, it's just not for me. Not at $60. Like I said, if games were $40, I'd buy a hell of a lot more.
This.
To the point that I just returned my copy. I was quite simply not having any fun with it and I'm tired of spending $60 bucks on games that feel like torture to play. I'll likely pick it up when it's down to $20 bucks, or when they release a Super edition. Whichever comes first.
On the bright side this means I won't be ranting or raging quite as much about the game.
 
P

PhoDacBiet

No Taki has already turned me off from SCV (she's hands-down my favorite fighter). And now no Seung Mina too? Hah. No buy for me then. I'll stick to SCIV.
 
S

ssdanku

Actually it's still in the game, just with a different command (slide input B,K [Y,B on 260, Triangle, Circle on PS3]) Still works the same as it ever did too.

Oh wow thanks, went back and tried it and it worked like you said then looked in the move list and sure enough it was there, felt like a dummy that i didn't see it before lol
 

Mardion

Potential Patron
Joined
Jan 18, 2010
^Really can't get why Taki fans disown this game, eventhough she practically still exists as Natsu.


I just got to playing the game, and I didn't like it. Thankfully the first review I read in this thread almost mirrored my emotions so I don't feel the urge to write a wall of text about what's wrong. I'll just add that not only is the story pretty much awful (especially the part where Patroklos kills his sister without thinking, which is extremely stupid in itself, then somehow decides he wants to re-live the past events, and he does, they are simply erased with no reason or reprecussions!) but the badly-drawn sketches completely ruined any kind of atmosphere for me ; they were so out of place it was mind-boggling. I was also appalled that most characters who "fill in" for another character, like Natsu, retained the same grabs with almost exactly the same animations... seriously, if you're going to revamp the series, revamp it, don't just change the skins!!! Althouh they showed how little they cared about the "revamp" by keeping some characters like Maxi exactly the same (no signs of aging at all after 17 years).

As for the gameplay itself, I found it isn't nearly as fluid as it was in the previous Soul games. Most of the moves feel sluggish, as does trying to connect them to the next ones ; this was especially annoying when trying to learn Ezio. I am certainly thankful for one thing, though, that ring outs seem to play a lot less of a role in this game.

In general, and since I don't go online with my X-Box360, I played this game for about 3 hours and probably won't be playing any more until some friend pesters me about it.


@Black Lion, to each his own, but for me, learning stuff about the character I am controlling in a good fighting game is a great enjoyment factor for me, and it was essentially disintegrated in this game as others have already said..
 

bryanthunder

Ryonani Teamster
Joined
Feb 23, 2010
^Really can't get why Taki fans disown this game, eventhough she practically still exists as Natsu.
I think that's part of the reason. If you aren't going to change how a fighter plays, why change the character at all? You even say that yourself actually.

I just got to playing the game, and I didn't like it. Thankfully the first review I read in this thread almost mirrored my emotions so I don't feel the urge to write a wall of text about what's wrong. I'll just add that not only is the story pretty much awful (especially the part where Patroklos kills his sister without thinking, which is extremely stupid in itself, then somehow decides he wants to re-live the past events, and he does, they are simply erased with no reason or reprecussions!) but the badly-drawn sketches completely ruined any kind of atmosphere for me ; they were so out of place it was mind-boggling. I was also appalled that most characters who "fill in" for another character, like Natsu, retained the same grabs with almost exactly the same animations... seriously, if you're going to revamp the series, revamp it, don't just change the skins!!! Althouh they showed how little they cared about the "revamp" by keeping some characters like Maxi exactly the same (no signs of aging at all after 17 years).
They really don't explain anything in the damn story. Patroklos kills Pyrrha; the implication is that Elysium took control of his body/mind to do so. Then without explanation he's in the Astral Chaos, then is suddenly *poof* he's back maybe an hour before he was taken over by Elysium. What? How? Did Edge Master send him back? Was his desire to fuc- err, "protect" his sister so strong that it broke time and space? Was this a Mortal Kombat "He must win!" thing?
Also, fun fact: Out of the 17 returning characters, only 3 are female, and only 1 of them have actually aged. (That's Hilde if you're curious.) Ivy and Tira both are affected by Soul Edge preventing them from aging.
Really feels like that time-skip was just an excuse to get rid of all the female veterans now doesn't it? Either that or they were just desperate for more jail-bait. (Seriously, all but one of the women in this game are either minors or filled with evil energy.)
Though the excuse they keep using to justify "unageing" characters bothers me: They keep saying Soul Edge's influence is what prevents aging. Does that seem odd to anyone else? That this chaotic soul-devouring sword can make people even marginally related to it immortal? Shouldn't it be the other way around, that just by being near any part of it should INCREASE the rate one ages rather than slow it? I mean, I could understand if it were Soul Calibur, which is all about order and control, slowing the aging process but Edge? I just don't get that.

As for the gameplay itself, I found it isn't nearly as fluid as it was in the previous Soul games. Most of the moves feel sluggish, as does trying to connect them to the next ones ; this was especially annoying when trying to learn Ezio. I am certainly thankful for one thing, though, that ring outs seem to play a lot less of a role in this game.
The reason SCV feels more sluggish, and has a harder time connecting moves together, is because of the reduced move-lists and the new combo-heavy nature of the game. Now you're supposed to rely on the combo set-up moves (usually stun attacks) which are supposed to be followed up with the same series of moves every time. (As an example: Xiba's "Shen Ba" 66B or 22B, is pretty much supposed to be followed up with "Kong's Ryui Bang Tail" B+K)

Part of it's problem is that SCV is far, far, faster than it's predecessor. But in increasing the speed it's like they forgot: Heavy hitters need to be slow in exchange for all the damage potential they have.
Seigfried and Nightmare can swing their swords around with speed that would have made Xianghua envious. And I have seen BOTH used as rush-down characters. Everything about that is just wrong.
 

anotherguttersnipe

Ryonani Teamster
Joined
Mar 15, 2011
Also, fun fact: Out of the 17 returning characters, only 3 are female, and only 1 of them have actually aged. (That's Hilde if you're curious.) Ivy and Tira both are affected by Soul Edge preventing them from aging.
Really feels like that time-skip was just an excuse to get rid of all the female veterans now doesn't it? Either that or they were just desperate for more jail-bait. (Seriously, all but one of the women in this game are either minors or filled with evil energy.)
Though the excuse they keep using to justify "unageing" characters bothers me: They keep saying Soul Edge's influence is what prevents aging. Does that seem odd to anyone else? That this chaotic soul-devouring sword can make people even marginally related to it immortal? Shouldn't it be the other way around, that just by being near any part of it should INCREASE the rate one ages rather than slow it? I mean, I could understand if it were Soul Calibur, which is all about order and control, slowing the aging process but Edge? I just don't get that.

Cervantes' soul became immortal when he originally acquired soul edge-and that was in the first Soul Blade.

Although, it was only his spirit that became immortal, while his body went through numerous changes over the years before finally possessing a completely fresh body(come to think of it-the how and why of Cervantes taking a new body would be more interesting than the main plot).

I can see what you mean by Project Soul coming up with shitty excuses for a few female vets not aging. But then what would have been a better alternative? A better plot device for female veterans to not age?(the astral chaos theory?) A less lengthy timeline between IV and V? The female veterans with potential 'immortality' cases scraped for completely new characters?

Because I've gotta be honest here. I'm not sure if I would've been OK with Taki/Sophitia/Seung Mina looking like cougars and Ivy looking like gravity finally got the better of her :-/
 

bryanthunder

Ryonani Teamster
Joined
Feb 23, 2010
Cervantes' soul became immortal when he originally acquired soul edge-and that was in the first Soul Blade.

Although, it was only his spirit that became immortal, while his body went through numerous changes over the years before finally possessing a completely fresh body(come to think of it-the how and why of Cervantes taking a new body would be more interesting than the main plot).

I can see what you mean by Project Soul coming up with shitty excuses for a few female vets not aging. But then what would have been a better alternative? A better plot device for female veterans to not age?(the astral chaos theory?) A less lengthy timeline between IV and V? The female veterans with potential 'immortality' cases scraped for completely new characters?

Because I've gotta be honest here. I'm not sure if I would've been OK with Taki/Sophitia/Seung Mina looking like cougars and Ivy looking like gravity finally got the better of her :-/
Cervantes in spirit was already selfish vengeful man, a perfect match for Soul Edge, making his spirit immortal makes some amount of sense. He's effectively clinging to the energy Soul Edge left behind after he lost it in order to obtain it again. (Plus its pretty much stated in his bio in SC4 that he also devours souls to sustain his existence)

I wouldn't take such issue with the female vets not returning if fourteen males hadn't returned, most of which haven't aged a day. Had there been oh, six returning vets three male, three female, I wouldn't complain about those who didn't return at.
A better alternative to keep the old female vets around? Here's a few:
A. Soul Edge/Calibur immortality. - Many of the characters have had interaction with either sword. Sophitia had fragments of Soul Edge in her body at one point, Taki fused a shard of Soul Edge into one of her blades, Xiaungha unknowingly wielded Soul Calibur for many years. You could get away with even "interaction with the blades slows down the aging process" which they have pretty much gone with at this point.
B. Magic. - Sophitia has been blessed by her Gods, Taki is a ninja (and has used Ninja Magic before) hell the entire SC universe supports magic so it wouldn't be far-fetched to say one way or the other they stopped aging due to magical influence.
C. Let them age. - No really. Mitsurugi is, what, 46? Aside from a few gray hairs he's looking pretty good. Why should Taki (who's the same age as him) be any different? Hell most wouldn't be much older than Hilde and she looks pretty damn good for someone with no "didn't age" excuse.
For the record Hilde was 18 is SC4, making her 35 in SC5. Hate to say but the others wouldn't be all that much older: Cassandra would be 38, Sophitia 42, Setsuka 41, Seong-Mina 40, and Talim would be an old hag at 32.
"But Bryant" I hear you say. "Women age differently!" to which I respond with: What the hell is your point? Do women in real life magically shrivel up into useless husks at 30 or something? Something to look forward to, every woman I know hitting thirty and suddenly *poof* living prunes.
Really now, we are talking about a fictional universe full of giant living swords, magical energy, and a man with an owl's head. I think we can suspend our disbelief on something as simple as a character in their 40's being just as good with their blade as they were in their 20's, while looking just as good. Male or female. (It's all about equality here!)

D. Have a full cast of new character. - Mitsurugi and Ivy are effectively the staple characters, if you wanted to do a "new generations" story just include those staples and have the rest be either trained by the old cast members, or inspired by them. (Like Yun-Seong was inspired by his hero Hwang in SC2)
Finally there's E. Don't do a time-skip. - Simple enough. It's not like this game cared about it's plot after all, so why bother having a time-skip if you aren't going to explain anything?
 
Last edited by a moderator:

anotherguttersnipe

Ryonani Teamster
Joined
Mar 15, 2011
Gotta say. These are solid plot points-and you'd have to be a completely blinded Namco fanboy to find faults in them. I seriously wonder why developers go to the effort of outsourcing their plots to 'professional studios', when it would probably be cheaper for them to get a far better plot from fan input. I believe they made bonus clone characters out of fan submissions for the last game, so I can't see why they couldn't do something similar with the plot.

It's possible that the game might do well enough for a no.6 to redeem these plot issues so long as the game keeps the interest of the competitive online community-regardless of their concern(or lack of) for the game's plot. But with SfxTekken looming over the horizon, It's highly unlikely(considering that NB corporate wanted to forget the franchise after IV)
 

randomguy

Ryonani Teamster
Joined
Feb 5, 2010
Because fans are stupid for the most part though so if out outsourcing but I find fans dumber. You skim a fan fiction site or the comment section of eventhubs and you will learn this quickly. That being said I didn't like the time skip.

One thing I have to ask the Taki fans. I keep hearing you mention the story and then you say Taki being gone was a deal breaker but I ask you, after Soul Blade what relevance to the plot did she have? answer? None! She did not do a bleeding thing after putting soul edge shards in her sword. But who am I kidding you guys don't like her for anything she has done or her personality there are two reasons you like her and they are under her nose. The same reason anyone likes Resident Evil's Jill or half the cast of DOA or Tekken's Christie or Juri from Street Fighter. Hell same goes for someone with Phyrra. He forgives her for being a hateful murdering bitch because she is cute.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

anotherguttersnipe

Ryonani Teamster
Joined
Mar 15, 2011
Because fans are stupid for the most part though so if out outsourcing but I find fans dumber. You skim a fan fiction site or the comment section of eventhubs and you will learn this quickly. That being said I didn't like the time skip.

I'd like to think of fanfiction sites as pawnshops. Yes, you're gonna find alotta worthless junk in there, but there's the off chance that you might find that coveted Amazing Spiderman #1
 

randomguy

Ryonani Teamster
Joined
Feb 5, 2010
actually that is true there are some good fanfiction but more often you will find fanfiction kinda like the gungrave anime adaptation. The anime felt like it was written by a guy who liked the game and wanted to go more into the background of Grave and give it a more grounded feel but then kept the grounded not fun bits when they went to the parts that the game takes place in taking away Grave's awesome coffin of kill things and making Mika a love interest rather then a little sister like figure as she is in the games. Making her a love interest was fucking squicky. Grave loved her mother and she is about 16-17(in the anime in game she was 14-15 and in the second she was 17)
 

bryanthunder

Ryonani Teamster
Joined
Feb 23, 2010
One thing I have to ask the Taki fans. I keep hearing you mention the story and then you say Taki being gone was a deal breaker but I ask you, after Soul Blade what relevance to the plot did she have? answer? None! She did not do a bleeding thing after putting soul edge shards in her sword. But who am I kidding you guys don't like her for anything she has done or her personality there are two reasons you like her and they are under her nose. The same reason anyone likes Resident Evil's Jill or half the cast of DOA or Tekken's Christie or Juri from Street Fighter. Hell same goes for someone with Phyrra. He forgives her for being a hateful murdering bitch because she is cute.
The more I read about you disliking Taki the more I can't help but imagine you want to have rampant hate-sex with her. Ha ha.
Kidding aside, only a few characters had did anything important after their first appearance. Most characters had excuses to get them involved with the swords, but many didn't even have that: Maxi wanted to kill Astaroth for example, and Cassandra wanted to bring her sister home not giving a damn about the swords themselves. Taki's excuse is that she wanted to seal/destroy both spirit swords. Of course allowing her to do so would pretty much end the series.
Though as a demon hunter though she's got a pretty damn good excuse to remain in the series, there are always demons and evil beings for her to hunt after all. (Aeon could have been a concern of hers for example.)

Really I don't get the hate you seem to have for her. There are far worse characters in the series that actually deserve your ire like Amy or Leixia.
 

Someone92

Vivacious Visitor
Joined
Feb 21, 2010
Isn't there always the best combo in a certain situation once your opponent has been floated into the air; I haven't played SC2-4 much but jumping around didn't seem to be a valid strategy so the opponent should always be thrown into the air the exact same high depending on normal hit or counter hit and characteristic floating high of each character. What's the difference between SC5 and it's predecessors here?
 

randomguy

Ryonani Teamster
Joined
Feb 5, 2010
Why do I hate her, because half of what I have been hearing is, "What!? No Taki!? NOT BUYONG!!!?" just based on that not the gameplay or ANYTHING else. I keep hearing people wine about her not being around when her lack of effectiveness to the games is lower then even Jun Kazama's (her whole thing was to bang Kazuya have Jin then vanish.) Hell Taki in games after the first soul blade had her endings usually just dicking around with Mitsurugi. Mitsurugi did little for the plot but at least his endings revolved around the sword. I mean come on! Cassandra was my favorite and you don't see me crying about it. I will just make her int eh create a character mode. I liked Seung Mina and Xanghua and again no bawing.

Er why should I hate Amy, I just don't really care about her and Lexia again has not done anything wrong. I actually find her cute and funny. Why should they gain MY ire?

To be honest until the fans didn't stop bitching I just found Taki's popularity stupid since the personality is the same as card board and the big tits with all the jumping distracting(no not turned on wondering how her spin doesn't snap like a twig and how she could be stealthy with those things.) until this and hated Sopitia more but then the crying and Phyrra came along and took up the second and first hate slot respectively.
 

bryanthunder

Ryonani Teamster
Joined
Feb 23, 2010
I feel like this is quickly escalating into an argument, which I want to avoid.
I like this discussion and I'm interested to hear your side of things, along with any counter points you bring.

Why do I hate her, because half of what I have been hearing is, "What!? No Taki!? NOT BUYONG!!!?" just based on that not the gameplay or ANYTHING else.
I can see your point here. It's similar to the old "No Mai, No Buy" which was childish, but when a character is something of an icon to a series... excluding them in very form is somewhat baffling.
And to be fair, I haven't heard nearly as many complaints about Taki's absence as a playable character since Yun-Seong, Zasalamel, and Talim were confirmed for dropped-off-the-face-of-the-Earth. Talim's fans are just as rabid as Taki's if you ask me. (If not more so because there isn't even a replacement for her.)

I'm not pining for Taki's inclusion, mind you, nor am I thrilled about her exclusion. I'm trying to see both sides, and I think I understand where her fans are coming from:
For one, there was the fact that she was announced/leaked to be involved in the story. Though many seem to have expected her to appear in Natsu's ending to officially pass the torch. Naturally she was absent in both the story and any endings (as there were none.)
Then there's the fact that Taki along with Mitsurugi, Voldo, Seigfried, and Cervantes were in every game up to SCV. She was kind of like Chun-Li is for Street Fighter, so, imagine if they announced Street Fighter 5 and said "Chun-Li won't be in because she's too old" but the rest of the "World Warriors" were to be in. Maybe you can see where some of them are coming from from that perspective.
Finally, back in Soulcalibur 2, Yun-Seong replaced Hwang, a change which fans still bitch about to this day. You really should have expected no less about a mainstay like Taki being replaced with an obvious homage to Naruto. It'd be like replacing Mitsurugi with a homage to Ichigo.

To be honest until the fans didn't stop bitching I just found Taki's popularity stupid since the personality is the same as card board and the big tits with all the jumping distracting(no not turned on wondering how her spin doesn't snap like a twig and how she could be stealthy with those things.)
This is actually a point that bothers me to some degree because I hear this complaint come up a lot regarding female characters in any sort of media.
"How does she even *insert any task here* with those?"
The answer: "The same as everyone else just with bigger tits."
Really is it so hard to believe that a woman with big breasts can't function in every way anyone else can? Taki's in damn good shape (visible muscles and all) so I can believe despite a minor disadvantage she can be agile. Just like how I believe Astaroth/Rock who's bicep is as big as his skull can raise their arms over their heads.

Er why should I hate Amy, I just don't really care about her and Lexia again has not done anything wrong. I actually find her cute and funny. Why should they gain MY ire?
Because if you compare Amy to Taki, Taki is positively a 3-dimensional character. And if I'm not mistaken that's one of your biggest beefs with the ninja. Seems your other issue is she adds nothing to the story. Again: Amy. She adds nothing to the story. Oh she's Raphael's lov-err, "child" whom leaves to find him because she's bored... riveting. She doesn't even have any involvement with the swords.
Plus, Amy is just as much, if not more, fetish fuel as Taki. She's a generic gothic-lolita in every way right down to the most bland, flat, and uninspired lines.

And there is at least one good reason to hate Leixia: "JUSTICE WILL PREVAIL!"
I want to tear out her throat every time I hear that line.

You know, now that I think about it. Taki seems to be for you, what Amy/Viola is to me. A character I look for any excuse to rag on because her inclusion confuses me.
If that's the case, maybe we can just end this discussion here and try to avoid talking about either? That would likely save us both a few sanity points.
 

randomguy

Ryonani Teamster
Joined
Feb 5, 2010
1: Taki is NOT an icon of the series. The only box she was ever on was the first one..pushed to the back...and with every other cast member. Hell ivy has been on the cover more along with Xinghua arguably THEY are closer to an icon. Taki is just a character in the back. And yes I see it every where I was googing DLC info for the game recently and kept running into forums on various sites of people bitching about Taki not being in and not buying it because of her. I have YET to see this with any of the other females or even males that are absent. Mai actually is an icon though since she was featured in tons of magazines ever since the 16-bit era Taki hasn't...actually Cassandra's been on more covers so even SHE is more of an icon. Hell! She is even in the little comic for SC 4 and was one of the main characters in the psp game. So in all actuality Cassandra is closer to the games icon

2: There is a level of suspense of disbelieve I can believe do to magic or soul power swords don't just chop people down, that people can have bodies that big and move around(since it DOES happen in real life.) and I can believe a lizard creature evolved pokemon style and grew wings. However when your tits are bigger then your head and you do a jump with them while not wear idk a sports bra that would make them smack you in the face and probably knock you out it bugs me. Let's look at Ivy a character I am indifferent towards. Hers are about the same size and she doesn't hop all over the place. She tends to stay grounded. The whole big breast and hoping around thing always bugs me in games. I'd yell at DOA 2-4 for it but they just copy and pasted the bodies and faces so I call it just plain laziness...like everything about the DOA titles(cept the new one it is actually. looking good). Actually Juri gets a positive note here. Juri is always hoping around and bending in insane ways but her bust is actually pretty small(though fanart LOVES to make them huge) and still I have no idea how taki could sneak up on anyone with those things. She is about as stealthy as the cast of Naruto.

3: Yeah Amy is a flat character though I'd say she has more personality then Taki does. I don't have issue with her I guess because I don't hear much from her fans. And in game she is just kinda there so she doesn't affect anything at all to the point she doesn't make my radar. Hell I forget she is around sometimes(no joke) So you are mad at Leixa for saying justice will prevail? then you must have haaaaaaaaaaaated her mother cause that was her friggin catch phrase. Hell The FULL line from Leixa is "As my mother thought! Justice will prevail." So if Leixia bugs you for ONE line(which is silly) then you must have hated her mother double for saying that line in four games. Funny that line bugs you but now taki's "Eeeeeviiil....Begon! TAAAAAAT!" christ all Taki's lines are monotone followed by a scream like "Destroy! SHAAAT!" and btw these are her WIN QUOTES not me just taking things form her fighting. That is her "riveting" win dialog. It's like she is an idiot AND has tourettes. The only enjoyment out of her annoying shrieks my friends and I ever got was making her jump off cliffs in SC2 while she goes "TOOOOOT"

It's not looking for excuses in my case the character her self annoys me and the fans are so rabid it is making me think of the damned sonic fanbase and even THEY are starting to tone down...a bit.
 

TheCrimsonRisk

Ryonani Teamster
Joined
Jun 10, 2010
Loving this SCV discussion! Lively thread. I'm a casual SC fan, but allow me to chime in here.

C. Let them age. - No really. Mitsurugi is, what, 46? Aside from a few gray hairs he's looking pretty good. Why should Taki (who's the same age as him) be any different? Hell most wouldn't be much older than Hilde and she looks pretty damn good for someone with no "didn't age" excuse.
For the record Hilde was 18 is SC4, making her 35 in SC5. Hate to say but the others wouldn't be all that much older: Cassandra would be 38, Sophitia 42, Setsuka 41, Seong-Mina 40, and Talim would be an old hag at 32.

It's disgusting that they tossed the females aside because they're too old. While this may be true to life in the entertainment biz (Harrison Ford, Nic Cage and Bruce Willis can still run around in action flicks but any hot female actresses from the 70s and 80s are relegated to playing moms now it seems), I don't see why this has to apply to fictional characters. They can look like whatever the artists want them to! I mean, this is where they're going to draw the line when it comes to suspending disbelief? Really? That said, if the artists just got bored with the characters and felt like designing new (albeit similar) ones that is a bit more understandable. Though why only the females?

Also, Christina Hendricks is 36 and she looks like a cartoon character. I'll be damned if women can't age gracefully.

Taki is NOT an icon of the series. The only box she was ever on was the first one..pushed to the back...and with every other cast member. Hell ivy has been on the cover more along with Xinghua arguably THEY are closer to an icon. Taki is just a character in the back. And yes I see it every where I was googing DLC info for the game recently and kept running into forums on various sites of people bitching about Taki not being in and not buying it because of her. I have YET to see this with any of the other females or even males that are absent.

...

It's not looking for excuses in my case the character her self annoys me and the fans are so rabid it is making me think of the damned sonic fanbase and even THEY are starting to tone down...a bit.

Doesn't the fact that she has so many insane fans indicate that she has to be considered an icon? The creators and magazines don't define what an icon is, the people do. I'm not saying I agree with Taki acolytes (Tak-olytes?), but as someone who only loosely follows the series Taki is definitely one of the first characters that I associate with SC. Then again, I'm a horny fool.
 

randomguy

Ryonani Teamster
Joined
Feb 5, 2010
but she isn't that is the point I was making. Yes she has fans, yes Taki has fans but they are not the poster kids and thus the idol. She is just a popular character. Several of the other characters are closer to icons including Hilde who in 4 was the canon ending. Too bad she kind vanished story wise in 5
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top


Are you 18 or older?

This website requires you to be 18 years of age or older. Please verify your age to view the content, or click Exit to leave.