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Sidescrollers as card games

Discussion in 'Zako' started by Stuelpner_Karl, Jan 14, 2013.

  1. Stuelpner_Karl

    Stuelpner_Karl Avid Affiliate

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    There are two interesting solitaire card games, based on Golden Axe and Castle Wolfenstein.

    The games are similar:
    -draw a card, if it's a foe place it on the table, otherwise put it in your hand
    -use attack cards against foes on the table
    -remaining foes attack you (you may use defense cards)
    -use heal cards to regenerate
    -draw a card...

    There are differences, but it should be possible to use most cards in different game worlds.

    What do you people think, can we create our own universal Zako game?

    (Obviously, the card design needs improvement.)
    Foes.jpg -> foe.jpg
     
  2. NNin

    NNin Swell Supporter Ryonani Teamster

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    Possible. But need some game design and maybe programming.
     
  3. Stuelpner_Karl

    Stuelpner_Karl Avid Affiliate

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    It's played with real cards on a real table, so we need no programming.

    We need a defined card size, like "9 on a standard sheet of paper", so everyone can print out and use any card in his own game world.

    Cards are B (boss), F (foe), A (attack), D (defense), H (heal), ranked from 1 to 5. (Bosses, like Death Adder, may have more points.)
    The hero sheet can be bigger,since it's not shuffeled into the deck, and contain special rules.

    Technically, a foe card (featuring a Zako with 3 hit points) just needs the information "F3". Everything else is just for fun. (Thus it's really important, since we play just for fun.)

    I would turn killed foes around and leave them on the table. That's why there is an upside-down picture, showing the defeated Zako, on the card.
    [​IMG]

    Attack cards may not just say "A3 - sword strike", but describe different levels of damage, based on how deep below zero the foe's hitpoints drop.
    (0= knocked out, -1= clean kill, -2= messy kill)
     
  4. nonniemouse

    nonniemouse Vivacious Visitor

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    There used to be really easy to use programs that can be used to play custom card games on the computer. I think it was called "Thott" or something similar (after some Egyptian deity). I can't find it now, but some googling gives VASSAL (VASSAL) as a possibility. It has the ability to play online with friends as well. I've also used OCTGN (http://www.octgn.net/) which is probably more complicated to set up for a new game, but can be setup to play a number of popular existing card games like Magic the Gathering, Universal Fight System (UFS), and World of Warcraft CCG. Any of those could serve as a basis for Zako / Ryona fans by tweaking the rules! I've done it by playing straight up MtG with decks subject to some card restrictions.
     
  5. DynamiteFetish

    DynamiteFetish Avid Affiliate Ryonani Teamster

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    This sounds good. I like that female hunter card.

    Coincidentally I posted these I made in the zako thread, which were made with some generator..

    --

    "Ahem... Zako trading cards anyone?

    View attachment 37517 View attachment 37518 View attachment 37519 View attachment 37520

    I'm only *slightly* obsessed with these girls right now .... damn you zako."

    ---

    The game would be as simple as it looks, based around the 'Top Trumps' format .. But with some luck on certain moves (rolling of dice, for example?) More info on that below -

    Top Trumps - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 15, 2013
  6. Airtew

    Airtew Vivacious Visitor

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    Designing the Game Pt. 1

    Let's discuss this. We have a couple things we'll want to look at here for a solid universal system.

    1. Is the player a zako or are they fighting a zako? This may seem like a silly question, but when you think about it it boils down to what kind of feel do you want the game to have. You could take the route of running one zako with their own themed deck, but going that route only lets you fight other zakos due to relatively low power. You could run a mastermind type idea and have a bunch of zakos in your deck, this concept seems a lot like Mtg or Yu-Gi-Oh at that point with to people in charge vying for power. Another thing to think about is you might run a cooperative game, where all the players are heroes and they face off against one deck full of villains, much like Setinels of the Multiverse or Munchkin, this last idea seems like it would provide the right flavor for such a game. What are your thoughts?
     
  7. Stuelpner_Karl

    Stuelpner_Karl Avid Affiliate

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    In the Golden Axe and Castle Wolfenstein games, the player is the hero who has to kill the zakos. They have a good game balance, so there is a fair chance that one of the zakos will finally win.

    To directly play the zakos, we might develop something like the Slasher Flick role playing game. Here a large group of people try to survive against a mighty opponent, but can't kill him until only a few of them are left.
     
  8. Airtew

    Airtew Vivacious Visitor

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    That actually sounds like a plan, or for that matter, essentially any roleplaying system with a few modifications could be used to suit our needs in this case. I am intrigued what a dungeons and dragons version of that idea might play out as, or even a World of Darkness game. The conversion would probably lean towards very rare instances of death on the players (zakos) parts. I think there's a bunch of different ways we can run with this. Thoughts?
     
  9. olala

    olala Potential Patron

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    Wew it was briliant idea,so when it will released?its there someone tryin to made this game?it will be dream come true:P,zako tradincard games on mi psp,then say goodbye to yougioh:P
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 29, 2013
  10. Airtew

    Airtew Vivacious Visitor

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    Here's what I had in mind for a zako type card game. The premise is you play with a group of others and are trying to defeat the boss. Along the way you have to take out their minions and have various means of doing so depending on which character you're playing as. Sample cards using MSE are posted below with credit to their artists listed on the cards.


    ZakoCards1.jpg ZakoCards2.jpg ZakoCards3.jpg ZakoCards4.jpg
     
  11. olala

    olala Potential Patron

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    Uh very nice!we got concept idea nows:P,so when this come?means its anyone have been startin to make zako tradin card games?:PAnywuy @dynamite,your card good dood!godahand zako group,love them much:3but where's the fatale boss?shannon?:3
     
  12. Servi

    Servi Vivacious Visitor

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    Sorry to resurrect this dead thread, but I decided I wanted to try and have fun with this.

    So I made some rules that if anyone cares to review could be used as a groundwork for this thing (if anyone is still interested that is)

    The rules use very similar concepts from the solitaire games linked above, but offer a bit more customization for specific scenarios, and the hero(ine) being used for a game.

    These aren't final, or totally complete yet, but I wanted some evaluation to see if anyone thinks this is something that will work.

    There a 6 types of cards that will be placed into a deck
    -Attack Cards (Cards used by the player(s) that inflict damage on a target. ex. Punch)
    -Defense Cards (Cards used by the player(s) that negate damage done to them. ex. Dodge)
    -Support Cards (Cards that help the player usually outside of combat. ex. Health-Kit)
    These cards will fall under being an Item or Action card.
    -Item Cards are various objects that a player may find during a game, some of which (mainly weapons) may be equipped by the character, and will be noted with the tag equip to use. Weapons will have certain tags that describe what sort of damage they do. ex. Rending, Explosive, Acidic, Impact, etc. (ex. Combat Knife would be Rending)
    -Action Cards are things the player can now do, drawing one from the deck implies that the character now has the opportunity to perform said action (ex. Grab, Dodge, Neck Snap)
    Some action cards may be used with item cards, for example: If a character's starting weapon is a pistol, but want to use a card that requires Rending, if they have an equip able item like Combat Knife, then they can pull it off. A character may only have one item equipped at a time, and its attack replaces the character's basic attack.
    The other 3 card types are:
    -Minion Cards enemies that player(s) will face over the course of the game. Most will be easily defeated zakos, but may include tougher, more elite zakos, to add a little variety and challenge for the players. (ex. Henchwomen, Security, Mercenaries)
    -Boss Card the ultimate goal of the game to eliminate this enemy, some will be as strong as the player(s) themselves, others may rely mostly on their underlings to win, giving zakos support and bonuses. (ex. Crime Lord, Super Villain, Giant Mecha)
    -Event Cards represent random occurrences during a fight or tactics used by the enemy to defeat the player(s), these cards can either benefit or hinder the player. (ex. Fall Back, Building Collapse, Ambush)

    At the moment I'm thinking for a basic game something like this for a deck
    15 Minion Cards
    1 Boss
    13 Items
    13 Actions
    10 Events

    Generally what sort of cards placed into a deck would describe what sort of scenario the player(s) are doing (ex. A water based scenario would have things like SCUBA Girls, Harpoon Guns, and maybe some sea monsters that would attack both the player and the zakos)

    Phases
    Flip Phase
    -Draw 2 cards (+1 per additional player)
    -Max 3 cards in player's hand
    -Put enemies drawn on the table
    -May discard cards from hand and replace with new cards drawn this round.


    Fight Phase
    -Players may use attack (A) cards


    Minion Phase
    -Enemies attack, damage spread evenly (Damage done by enemy will be stated on their card)
    -Players may use defense (D) cards


    Recovery Phase
    -Players may use support (S) cards
    -Players may switch equipped card

    I also wanted to implement Karl's hit point idea, this will apply to all characters (players, minions, bosses, etc.) I'm planning on having certain things be triggered by how a character is killed (ex. A Necromancer boss would resurrect cleanly killed enemies as zombies, forcing the players to either knock out a zako, or finish her off in a way where her corpse would be useless.)
    HP:0=Downed (Character is knocked unconscious, but relatively fine, players may be able to awaken themselves if given assistance)HP:-1=Clean Kill (Character is killed in a fashion where there is little blood, and the body is completely intact)
    HP:-2=Messily Killed (Character is killed in a gory fashion, usually something that causes significant damage such as decapitation, being split in two, or a particularly bad bullet wound.)
    HP:-2>=Gibblets (Character has been reduced to nothing more than a pile of guts, a red smear on the floor, or a scorch mark.)

    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Onething I forgot to put in was how a player's character stats work.Most, if not all of these are pretty self explanatory.[/FONT]

    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]HitPoints[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]-Howmany points of damage a character can take before beingdefeated/killed[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Intelligence[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]-Acharacter's smarts, will often help players using more advanced gear.(ex.Explosives, health-kits)[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Speed[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]-Howagile a character is. Mostly used for defense cards, though certaincharacters will use speed as a basis for their attacks.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Strength[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]-Howstrong a character is, mostly used for attacks.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Weapon[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]-Acharacters starting weapon, will look something like this. (SilencedPistol. 2 Damage [Ballistics])[/FONT]

    I have lots of ideas for cards, I just need to find a proper format and finish up the rules first, these rules of course are subject to change, and are likely to once I can start testing this.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 9, 2014
  13. Stuelpner_Karl

    Stuelpner_Karl Avid Affiliate

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    How about "reflect" or "riposte" cards, that not only avoid the damage, but return it to the attacker or a fellow minion?
     
  14. Airtew

    Airtew Vivacious Visitor

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    Ah glad to see someone started this back up. I really like where you're going with this, but I wanted to clarify. Will this be just a one deck card game? The problem there being, what if a player flips up only abilities and items until the very end then gets a stream of enemies, or vice-versa? You may want to consider making individual decks for each boss. That way they have their own unique minions and abilities.

    How are stats recorded? Like would a player have a unique card with their stats, items, etc.?

    And lastly, can I get in on this?
     
  15. Servi

    Servi Vivacious Visitor

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    I planned on this being one deck, just to streamline things more , but I can see the issue. Maybe we can work in a sort of protagonist and antagonist deck.
    Stats will be on each character's card.
    The more the merrier! This is open for anyone to help out and contribute.

    Since it would be used during the minion phase, as a reaction to an attack, it would be considered a defense card. I guess I should redefine what constitutes as attack, defense, and support cards.

    But yeah, that would totally work.

    Here's a quick card list that I plan to finish by next week that can used to test the rules.
    If any of these are worded awkwardly or don't make sense, please tell me. Also if there's any pictures that anyone thinks would fit well for the card, feel free to message me it. Would save some time.
    If anyone posts any more ideas for cards or characters, I'd be more than happy to add them to the list to work on, as you can probably tell, a few of these cards are based on ones posted on this thread by other people.

    Player Characters
    Brawler-17 HP / 2 INT / 1 SPD / 3 STR/ Martial Arts: 1 Damage [Impact] (Generic Street Fighter-esqe character)
    Assassin-14 HP / 2 INT/ 3 SPD / 1 STR / Small Knife: 1 Damage [Rending]

    Minions
    Hired Thugs-3 HP / Pistol 2 DMG [Ballistics] (Random women hired to protect criminal assets)Machine Gun Girls-5 HP/ Machine Gun 4 DMG [Ballistics] (Elite thugs armed with powerful weaponry)

    Bosses
    Crime Lord-14 HP / 7 DMG [Tommy Gun]

    Items
    Health-Kit (S): Heal X amount of hit points, X being the characters intelligence.
    Smoke Grenade (D): All enemies do 1 less point of damage this round.
    Pistol (A): Equip to use. 2 DMG [Ballistics]
    Machine Gun (A): Discard to deal 6 DMG spread as the player wishes [Ballistics]
    Bullet Proof Armor (D): Equip to use. Player takes 2 less damage from enemy attacks.

    Actions
    Riposte (D): Deflect damage done to you by one enemy to them or another target. Discard after use.
    Kick to the Face (A): Discard to use. Deal X damage, X being the character's strength.
    Double Hit (A): Discard to use. Use with an attack that would usually deal damage to one target, and apply it to two instead.
    Dodge (D): Discard to use. Negate X amount of damage, X being the character's Speed.
    Second Wind (S): Discard to use. Player regains X amount of health, X being the character's strength.
    Intimidate (D): Discard to use. All enemies with 2 HP or less do no damage this round.

    Events
    Fall Back!: All enemies do no damage this round, and players may not be able to attack the enemies this round.
    Outgunned: All enemies do 1 additional point of damage this round.
    Take Cover: All enemies take 1 less point of damage from the players this round.
    I Surrender!: Choose one enemy with 2 HP or less, this enemy may be either spared, knocked out, killed cleanly or messily. In any case, remove the enemy from the game.
    Ambush!: Players may not be able to use any attack cards this round.

    On a side note, here is a sort of test card I made when I was bored.
    Warajiya Combatant.jpg
     
  16. NNin

    NNin Swell Supporter Ryonani Teamster

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    I see. Let's me make a test cards too...
    Maybe I can try to discuss about the system when I have time :3

    Card - Petal.jpg Card - Belly Kick.jpg Card - Rapid Kick.jpg Card - Chokehold.jpg
     
  17. Airtew

    Airtew Vivacious Visitor

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    So here is a test character deck. I chose some of the lowest hanging fruit for this deck idea. You will need magic set editor to open it, but feel free to take a look and comment on the idea.

    I am loving the look of your cards NNin.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2014
  18. Stuelpner_Karl

    Stuelpner_Karl Avid Affiliate

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    In the original Golden Axe and Wolfenstein scenarios, the minions only had one statistic:
    They did damage to the player equal to their remaining hitpoints.

    Now they have hitpoints, attack and defense.
    What are the core game mechanics for these?

    For example, if the player performs an action that does 2 points of damage to Petal, how will her defense affect it? And will her attack change if she loses hitpoints?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Just fiddeling around with the Magic Set Editor:

    no-name.jpg no-name.2.jpg no-name.1.jpg
     
  19. NNin

    NNin Swell Supporter Ryonani Teamster

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    Just throw some random cards and attributes. We need proper card format and system. So I think this can spark some ideas :P
    Though in my mind, Defense Value reduces all damage to the target by that amount. But I think this will make a combat too difficult.

    Thanks :) And your cards gave some idea about deck too.

    Tried UFS patch for MSE, though it's close to what Servi gave us about the stats and has attack and action cards, its format is hard to manage for me.

    Card - Petal (UFS).jpg Card - Rapid Kick (UFS).jpg Card - Feint Engage (UFS).jpg

    While the Lord of The Ring card game template from GeckoTH's LOTR Template Repository | The Lord of the Rings: The Card Game | BoardGameGeek gave many types of cards and customization, along with good looking format. However, it needs PS and harder to make them in set.

    Card - Maki.jpg Card - Petal (LoTR).jpg Cool Sword.jpg Lightning Jab.jpg Outnumbered.jpg

    I'm thinking about staying at VS Standard. The card should only have an attribute for attack and HP to survive. For defense, let them rely on defense card only.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 11, 2014
  20. Stuelpner_Karl

    Stuelpner_Karl Avid Affiliate

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    It's been several years since I played the Wolfenstein game. From what I remember, I always lost.

    It has 24 foes (with a avarage of 3,33 HP), 24 attacks (2,5 HP), just 4 heal cards (4 HP each) and 4 defenses.
    Some attack cards do damage to more than one foe, otherwise it would be technically impossible to beat them all.

    I suggest that we define standards for foe decks with about the same combined HP. It may be split between boss(es) and minions in different ways. The deck may also contain event cards that work in favour of the foes.
    These decks should work with different types of player characters.

    All attack, defense and heal cards might be made specifically for one player character.
    For example, there may be a Xena deck with moves she usually does, weapons she uses, etc.
    It would look different then one for Agent Aika, but the damage it deals to the foes would be about as much. So Xena might fight the Delmos and Aika might fight some ancient amazons.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Fiddeling around with different stats, using the number on the top for hitpoints and those on the bottom for close combat:
    Volkova.jpg
    This gun wielding mercenary named Ruslana Volkova has 3 hitpoints, 2 attack and 5 defense points.
    The text says "Carrying a SMG, Volkova's attacks do 4 points of damage until she is attacked for the first time."

    Once she joins the fray, the player better attacks her.
    Otherwise she will fire her gun, doing a 4 point attack.

    Once attacked, she loses her gun.
    In close combat, she only does 2 points of damage.
    Unarmed attacks on her must reduce defense first, before having effect on the hitpoints.

    But if you decide to shoot her, defense is ignored. No matter how tough she is, she can't stop a bullet.