Losing to a stronger or weaker opponent? (1 Viewer)

[miniscizor]

So we like to see ryona - but I've been wondering, do you prefer losing to an opponent who's clearly stronger or to a weaker opponent that the victim should actually be able to beat?

Losing to clearly stronger opponents such as bosses is hot in that you know the victim stands no chance winning, yet they try anyway and suffer a complete beatdown no matter how hard they try.

Losing to a weaker opponent such as mob characters on the other hand is great as the victim's usually confident they can beat their opponent, only to get caught off-guard and lose humiliatingly.

So which do you prefer - I'm curious.

 

[DeNice]

For me this one's a little tough (especially with me being more of a 'mutual' fan, but for this topic I'm gonna curb that bias of mine for a while), because as you said both versions have their value. I guess with me, when I'm playing as my faves girls in a fighting game, I think I wind up clicking a bit more in situations with me losing to someone that's stronger than me than the other way around. I like to think of my skill of playing games to be a bit higher than average, so I sorta paint that onto my girl characters' styles when I play; being confident in any given battle and willing to compete and show off their skills (and looks as well). Knowing their stuff, they tend to win quite a bit, which builds their confidence going from battle to battle, and even if it's a loss, if it's close, then it's not too bad... They take the battle as experience and try to do better next battle...

...Which makes it more surprising when out of nowhere [Tekken example] a King enters the ring and suddenly my Xiaoyu or my Lili gets grabbed out of every one of their elegant maneuvers and attack, getting slammed all around the arena or [Street Fighter example] a Mika or Nash player dominates my Sakura or Chun-Li... or [BlazBlue example] a Tager or Terumi utterly demolish my Noel or Mai. It's just so sudden to go from competent to utterly dominated despite holding your own in most battles, and a big feeling of helpnessless and weakness overwhelms them. Suddenly, you secondguess your abilities... you don't know what to do... you feel utterly exposed, all the while she's being beaten up with no way to stop it from happening..., then all of those feelings turn into humiliation and ultimately defeat. That opponent was completely out of your league, and he or she showed it by whooping on you so much you can no longer stand and fight back. For all your training up until that point, in the end, it didn't mean anything and you lost; badly... leaving you open for the victor to gloat over your weakness and embarrass you further... Nina stepping on Xiaoyu's back as she's face down on the ground... Necalli hoisting Chun-Li by her pretty hair up to the sky in primal dominance, Relius using Ignis to pick up Mai by her face and holding her body up for display before he 'experiments' on her... Mature and Vice laughing at Athena for embarrassing herself in front of her fans... So on and so forth...

That's the side that tends to happen to me, at least, when I play, though that doesn't mean the other side isn't without its merit either. Like [Tekken] my Lili coming across a Lucky Chloe that clearly doesn't know how to fight as well as she can... On normal circumstances, it would be easy for me to just beat her and move on, but I was never into running over those that don't know how to play as well as I do. It's no fun to me to win so easily. so, perhaps after a couple of rounds Lili wins easily, and, out of the sake to prevent boredom, she feels she can win no matter what Chloe does. After all, she's barely been able to touch her. So, Lili feels she doens't need to dodge Chloe's kicks anymore. Even if some connect, she'd probably not feel much pain... Oh,and on top of that Lili stops using her useful combination attacks and just uses single blows... No need to use the powerful stuff in a low-quality battle like this, right...? "Just the basics will be more than enough to deal with you..." she thinks...

But, something happens because of this; it exposes the fact that the dominating Lili actually has poor blocking skills of her own, and Chloe has many confusing and surprisingly strong kicking attacks in her arsenal... She just needed the opening Lili willingly gave her to use them... Things even out... and suddenly, Lili begins staggering back... Attacks slam her beautiful legs knocking her off balance... She tried to get distance only for Chloe's leaping somersault kicks to catch her off guard... Chloe begins evading Lili's retaliation blows and using her own legs to throw her about the place... The tables turn and suddenly Lili is the one losing, and panicking. She indeed was the stronger fighter here, but she let her arrogance get the better of her, and try as she might, she let Chloe have too much liberty with her... Before she knows it, a powerful smack of the hand clocks Lili on the side of the head and floors her, and that familiar sexy moan of hers echoes throughout the fight arena... and the last thing she can hear before she passes out, her body crumpled up on the ground...

"Guess what...? You just lost to Lucky Chloe...!"

Utter humiliation... and it was all self inflicted on my Lili. Chole nurses her own injuries, but ultimately dances away in happiness knowing somehow she managed to beat that other blonde girl that was originally dominating her some minutes prior...

....oh, dear. I seem to have written way more than I was expecting to... Bad habit of mine, lol. Tends to happen with me considering I write fanfiction and have a vivid imagination while playing games, but yeah, tldr, I tend to lose to stronger opponents more often... but I think I like the embarrassment of losing to a weaker opponent better. Both options are quite good, you know?

 

[miniscizor]

Yeah I see where you're coming from, I used to prefer losing to weaker opponents but now I'm not too sure... like you said losing to stronger opponents just highlights their helplessness and weakness. Here's my thoughts. It's made even better when you look at their intros, for example Xiaoyu might get that "Prepare yourself!" intro showing confidence in her abilities, only to be overwhelmed once fight starts. She's unable to inflict any damage onto Bryan no matter how hard she tries. Bryan then unrelentingly beats her up, as she lets out grunts of pain till the point she's unable to hold her ground and lets out that sexy KO scream as she flops to defeat, unable to put up a proper resistance..and to top it all off Bryan continues to beat up her unconscious body - yeah, losing to stronger opponents are great. At least, whenever I see Xiaoyu or any girl lose to Bryan this is how I end up thinking.

But then comes that one person no one takes seriously. Lucky Chloe. I don't even need to go into much detail as you've done so - but letting your guard down against her till she eventually defeating Xiaoyu is just breathtaking. Complete humiliation - losing to an opponent you know you should've beaten. And Lucky Chloe's winpose further highlights that. Another example would be the Scenario Campaign in T6 or the Tekken Force in T4 - losing the nameless mobs also gives that extra sense of humiliation - you've just lost to people who've got no right to beat you at all. Xiaoyu lets out an attack, but is easily parried by...who again? This nameless, faceless person proceeds to stun Xiaoyu, leaving her helpless to further beatdown till her eventual loss. As Xiaoyu's consciousness fades, she looks at her aggressor, unable to believe she just lost to someone who's not even that prominent in fighting... Dang I wish they'd bring back Tekken Force in T7, such a shame they didn't. And guess I'm guilty of writing too much too. And my biasness towards a certain girl is showing...whoops.

Tldr, losing to stronger opponents - complete humiliation. Losing to weaker opponents - complete humiliation. Which is why I'm torn.

 

[nine]

I think the humiliation is greater when you lose against a weaker opponent.

Take Palutena who is a goddess an so, better in all point than humans. She is so certain of her victory that she underestmate her opponent which prove to be a fatal mistake against the like captain falcon. The surprise, the "oh-shit" effect when she is bested because of her arrogance is a good point.

The same logic can apply to Eliza. A powerful ancient vampire who see human as food. . . Only to be knocked out by Lucky Chloe or Bryan.

Or the hybrid Corrin, a half dragon with powerful abilities but who lose against mere mobs because of her overconfidence in her power.

When the ryona victim lose to a stronger opponent, it is a predictable result. I prefer when the tables turn, when the strong, surhuman lose because of X or Y reasons. It make the following punishment more satisfying instead of a "as expected, Xiaoyu got kicked around by Bryan".

Another example would be Ayane against Marie Rose. The latter is smaller and weaker than the trained kunoichi who will looked down upon her and not go full force. Which would prove to be a mistake when the little girl just empty her hp bar and knocked her down.

 

[DeNice]

N nine - You know what you're very right about that. Actually made me rethink this as I read and slightly edit my first post; one thing I do admit I don't like too much is the predictability nature of ryona sometimes when it comes to the victim losing to the same overwhelming opponent all the time. That was the main reason why I sorta got tired of tyical DOA ryona for a long while because the attacker was always someone like Bayman or Bass in a lot of videos. True, you get to see more compromising views of girls like Kasumi, Ayane and such with these two being thrown and grabbed around the place... but it did get quite stale with me. Same runs true in Tekken with King & Dragunov being the main abusers, or in KOF with Clark and King of Dinosaurs.

You don't see too much of the girls losing against those that are considered 'weaker' in terms of strength, and for me especially with my whole female vs female bias, that tends to be more like my sort of thing. That Marie Rose & Ayane example was quite a good example... as well as what you mentioned about Corrin in the Multi-Man Smash modes in Super Smash Bros. In fact, that reminded me of why I used to always love playing as Lucina in Smash 4. I spent a lot of time in Endless Smash with her, half to try to beat my high score, and half to see her go from easily knocking off all her little Mii attackers and barely getting touched, to slowly getting worn down as time went on as the gang numbers began to catch up with her, to her beginning to be knocked off her feet and to the ground as her damage percent begins to build up past 100%....

From there on, it becomes a big struggle for Lucina as these weak opponents combined are actually beginning to beat her... and because its endless, it's only a matter of time before that one Mii girl get that one lucky attack on her that sends the once proud princess of the blade spiraling out of the arena and into defeat, loud KO gasp and all....

...darn it, now I wanna play some Smash 4, lol. I haven't played that game in over a year, now I miss my Lucina. Same with female!Robin, too (even more so since unlike most other characters, she can use one of her specials to try to recover some of her health in that mode... which just makes her subjective to being knocked around even longer.)

 

[miniscizor]

N nine - You summed why I like losing against weaker opponents really well. Losing to such an opponent doea have that surprise factor which adds to the humiliation.

Just as DeNice mentioned, there's too much similar ryona material in which there's one-sided beatdowns like the Bayman and Bass beating up the girls kinda videos. Though I do think losing to stronger opponents can work in some situations, especially when the victim is shown trying their hardest to win. These are some videos that help show what I mean.



Xiaoyu starts off confident in herself. You can see Xiaoyu's doing her best to fight but none of her attacks seem to connect, Jin effortlessly dodges everything she throws at him, when all of a sudden Xiaoyu feels a smack to her right and falls behind. Humiliated that her opponent dealt with her so easily while she was giving her all, she proceeds to go even more seriously but is parried again effortlessly. This is when she realized the difference in power between them, knowing she has no hope of winning. Then the onslaught starts.



Likewise, Asuka starts off confident in her intro. She does everything she can against Feng but nothing works out. A simple punch throws her off guard before Feng proceeds to completely destroy Asuka. Her spunkiness is completely gone from then, being a simple ragdoll for Feng to beat up.



Lili starts off thinking that she'll easily win, thinking how long Dragunov would last. Lili goes all out against Dragunov and yet he easily brushes off her attacks. She gets startled and attacks more but is easily dodged, before Dragunov lands hit after hit on her. After being unable to get up and losing her self confidence, Dragunov ruthlessly destroys her.



Mai too starts off confident, and tries everything she has to land a hit on Xanadu - but to her despair nothing worked. When all else fails she uses her special move, which is rendered useless. Xanadu then proceeds to toy with her.

TLDR; when the extent of the victim's struggle is shown and expanded upon, then can losing to stronger opponents truly shine, as it highlights their humiliation similarly to losing to a weaker opponent. Bonus points if their confidence is broken, but that works both ways.

Currently I'm on the fence between the two, I'm just highlighting how losing to stronger opponents could be hot, as N nine did for losing to weaker opponents.

 

[DeNice]

miniscizor - Those videos do give a good point, too. I guess that's why I knew this would be a tough question to answer. I'm starting to think that, at least for us, there's no 'wrong answer' here... Like the pool needed a 'both' option, lol. As we've noted, both sides offer similar results; our beautiful favorite girls, brimming with confidence and ready to prove themselves, struggling and ultimately being outclassed, overwhelmed, beaten, humiliated and defeated in sexy ways by the time everything is said and done. I do feel better when the girl I'm watching in a ryona scene really does try her best to try to fight back instead of being just a punching bag the entire time, though... It's always hot for me to see her putting up an honest struggle against her opponent(s) as much as she can muster; it makes her being more and more vulnerable more of a joy to watch as she takes more and more punishment, regardless if that person is way out of her league, or way underneath her skill and power wise.

Again, fans of ryona will always have their specific 'perks'. I suppose for me that's why I like female/female mutual ryona so much; both girls struggling against the other as they try to overpower the other, ultimately making both of them the giver and taker of the ryona situation without taking anything away from their own capabilities, while still playing victim at the same time. It's the best of both worlds to me that way. I've always had this whole 'two is better than one' attitude about my ryona liking, but again, that's just me.

 

[miniscizor]

DeNice Yeah, I guess you're right, which is why I added two more options - losing to an opponent just as strong as the victim(which I guess covers your interest) and losing to any opponent. I'm curious which one's the most popular. I guess we can all agree that the humiliation is the best part, though we all may have differing opinions as to how that humiliation can be best delivered - by losing to a stronger, weaker or an opponent on the same level?

Personally, I guess losing to a weaker opponent generally delivers the humiliation best, though losing to others can also work just as good, albeit in specific situations as explained earlier. Losing to weaker opponents will always give that surprise factor that's humiliating to the victim. So I guess I'm leaning towards losing to weaker opponents for now. But hey, that's just me.

 

[nine]

I'm staying with weaker.

When the opponents are even i feel like more watching the fight. Sure the post knock out is still good, but for me the humiliation play a big rolee.

 

[Black Delmo]

I prefer both, but for me it depends on their design and what they can do. (I prefer female vs female situations)

One reason I like losing to weaker enemies is the thought of seeing what they could do against your character even though they're going to lose, plus since their damage is low it makes the ryona last longer. Also, (if the character design and attacks are good) I think it's sexy getting surrounded by them while getting beat up and seeing if there are any taunts they can do after your character dies or in combat.

An example is from Bloodrayne 2, In Bloodrayne 2 you have these female enemies wearing sexy lingerie in the first level. They can be easily killed in one or two hits, but surprisingly they have different types of attacks as well as some great taunts and voice (up to 2:14 in vid, I like the laugh and the "Do you like it like that?" taunt) which is why one part I like getting beat by weak enemies because longer ryona and could be a surprise at what they could do.

One the other hand I like getting beat by strong enemies as well because they generally have more moves and I like to see what the best can do to the players. Like the Dominatrix in Watchmen ,the Kunoichis in Tenchu, and the Mosu Kunoichi from Shinobido. (Can't find a better vid for her)

 

[nine]

To continue with the example of Black Delmo that's why Fire Emblem is great for those who love losing to weaker opponent because you fight a lot of nameless mobs. I remember in fire emblem conquest (the one with Corrin) it is easy to have the dragon lady tanking everything but there is a map, a bunch of underground tunnels where you are attacked by ninjas. Theirs attacks inflict 0 damage but they all have a skills where after combat they automaticaly deal 10 damages no matter the defense of the unit. The result is, my strong unit which i could always send to clear a part of a map got tire down little by little. When i've realized my error it was too late and she got killed so game over. (god dammit i want to write a short fic about it now).

 

[nonniemouse]

My fascination with zakos is a bit weird because I mainly enjoy risky encounters where either side can prevail. I like zakos because they are numerous and individually weak, but the idea that a group of zakos could work together or get lucky and take down a much stronger hero is also very appealing to me! So when I first read the question, the "you" refer to me as the player or the male hero (rather than the female zako), and in that version of the question, and I very much prefer losing to weaker enemies in that case!

 

[Unrelated]

I'm a fan of it in many directions... I *love* seeing characters like Lili dominating Lucky Chloe.. but then I also like seeing situations where a beefy warrior woman gets tricked and taken down by something like a lowly goblin.

The only thing I'm not a huge fan of is the situation being completely impossible one way or another.. it just doesn't have that question, that uncertainty, that risk..

 

[VillainousWarlord]

Definitely the weaker opponent winning, while the stronger one takes the fall to get taunted for they're failure.

Specifically Marie's giggle and 'piece of cake' line.

 

[nine]

Specifically Marie's giggle and 'piece of cake' line.

Yeah, when she crouch and mock someone like ayane,kasumi or even tina is really humiliating given the difference in strenght.

 

[Ghost999]

Loosing to a strong opponent is awesome. But I like things gradual. I commisioned several stories where the heroine fights tons a lower class opponents. As she progresses they do more and more damage. When she meets the boss is not that he is stronger... but she is weak because of all the fights she has gone through. That is my ideal ryona scenario

 

[eyeteeth]

i voted for "any" but what i really mean is "both". they are both really great, for different reasons. i actually like two ideas for losing to a weaker opponent. one way is just that the strong one makes a mistake or is overconfident or whatever, and is defeated that way.

another way is that the strong one, for whatever reason, surrenders. like a strong valkyrie facing a bunch of goblins, she could destroy them easily but for some reason she lets them capture her. maybe they have a hostage, or maybe the valkyrie has always wanted to "experiment" with goblins so she lets her guard down thinking she can always escape later. i like the idea of the strong capable heroine failing to such a weak enemy without even being able to try to fight back.

 

[TortureRack]

I haven't experimented much with losing to a weaker character. I prefer losing to stronger more dominant characters. Typical, I know. I play a lot of wrestling games, specifically WWE 2K18 lately. My character of choice is Brie Bella. She loses a lot on TV and when I play as her I try to play in character. Whenever she's matched up against bigger, stronger opponents like Nia Jax or Beth Phoenix I usually just let her get squashed. Admittedly, sometimes I don't let it happen on purpose. But recently, I've started to prefer playing more competitive matches as her. It prolongs the punishment she takes, and as a plus after the match is over she's usually drenched in sweat which I find very hot.

 

[NNin]

I prefer any since they have their own merit.

Losing against stronger opponent is the best if you want to see heavy ryona and unsuccesul affort from the heroine.

Losing to the equal is good for intense fight scene with back-and-forth.

Losing to the weaker enemy (zako) is good for group fight scene, zako ryona, zako's hidden trick that give them a momentum. The heroine gets humilated by zako can be very good ;3

I prefer both, but for me it depends on their design and what they can do. (I prefer female vs female situations)

One reason I like losing to weaker enemies is the thought of seeing what they could do against your character even though they're going to lose, plus since their damage is low it makes the ryona last longer. Also, (if the character design and attacks are good) I think it's sexy getting surrounded by them while getting beat up and seeing if there are any taunts they can do after your character dies or in combat.

An example is from Bloodrayne 2, In Bloodrayne 2 you have these female enemies wearing sexy lingerie in the first level. They can be easily killed in one or two hits, but surprisingly they have different types of attacks as well as some great taunts and voice (up to 2:14 in vid, I like the laugh and the "Do you like it like that?" taunt) which is why one part I like getting beat by weak enemies because longer ryona and could be a surprise at what they could do.

One the other hand I like getting beat by strong enemies as well because they generally have more moves and I like to see what the best can do to the players. Like the Dominatrix in Watchmen ,the Kunoichis in Tenchu, and the Mosu Kunoichi from Shinobido. (Can't find a better vid for her)

I don't know why they bother to give a counter move to Bloodrayne II's female vampire guard, who can die easily. That cool move can be left unseen lol. Unlike Watchmen's dominatrix who can take some hit, can evade and use her chance when you missed.

But anyway, it's one of that "hidden trick that give them a momentum".