Lafiel (Banner of the Stars) (1 Viewer)

[iMostlyJustLurk]

May I present Ablïarsec Néïc Dubleuscr Bœrh Parhynr Lamhirh, Viscountess Abriel Paryunu!
With the addition of pointy ears in the latest version of SDT, I knew it was time to get my crap together and finally make this request. Went a bit OCD on collecting reference material so I've grouped them in to clusters.

Artbooks:






Anime Caps:




Accessories (ie. with Tiara):



Forehead bumpy bit (w/out Tiara): I searched and search for good profile refs for the forehead sensory node thing... this was best I could find.



Fringe Detail:

It's hard to come by "standard" references for how it the fringe should look. Most of these references are only good for the "flavor" of the hair.








Go with whatever accessory state (sillver/gold/none) you feel like, I'll be happy with anything. :)

 

[Faceless]

Banner of the Stars, woo! I support this and commend you for actually finding references.

 

[Shade]

Alright, so I've started poking around with this, but as there is very little 'full shot' reference material out there, I'm going to be doing this slowly and using you (iMostlyJustLurk) as a guide. Sorry, but you don't get to lurk anymore!

I've been mostly using this image as a guide for the back, and two attached images are the designs I've come up with; ignore the floating colored boxes, that's just my color pallet, as well as any heavy lines or disjointed bits, and I'm just looking at the tail of her hair for now. What are your thoughts on the shape? I'm not sure if I'm happy with it, but without a different view I'm not sure how it's meant to look. If you know any other anime hair (or even another SDT hair) where the back looks how you'd like it (and you can get a reference shot) I can make adjustments to make the basic shape look how you want, and keep the colors and details from Lafiel.

The fringe will obviously be matched with the reference pictures you've provided, as from what I can tell most of them are perfect to use as guides, even for someone with my limited skills. :D I'm hesitant to start working on the fringe until I get the back sorted though, as the back is the bulk of the hair, making it harder to change.

Now I'm off to dig through the archive for ideas...

 

[Nigida]

I think a middle ground between those two previews is the way to go.

 

[Shade]

I think a middle ground between those two previews is the way to go.

I just knew someone would say something horrible like that! :P

What would you consider a middle ground though? I'll have to see what the OP says too, since it's technically his request. :D

 

[iMostlyJustLurk]

Hi Shade,

I can't tell you how excited I am to have someone working on this. I really appreciate you taking the time to help me out. :)

Of the two samples, the second one definitely feels more authentic to me.

Now that I have some idea what you need more detail on, I'll go through my image collection and see if I can dig out some better shots of the tail for you. I'll add my findings to a new section in the OP.

If I can't find anything good I'll just have to go re-watch some episodes and try to come up with a subjective description for you, but hopefully it won't come to that... I have a lot of images :P

EDIT: I've added what I could find from my library. If it's still not quite what you need to work from I'll go through some of the hair archives and see if I can find something that "feels" right and add that too. It's a bit frustrating that most images only really capture one aspect of how it should look... I'm happy to do anything I can do to make your job easier. :)

 

[Shade]

Of the two samples, the second one definitely feels more authentic to me.

Are you happy if I use the second sample then, or would you like that to be adjusted further? Of course when finished it'll get Shadows/Highlights/Detail lines where needed.

If I can't find anything good I'll just have to go re-watch some episodes and try to come up with a subjective description for you, but hopefully it won't come to that... I have a lot of images :P

Feel free to draw on any of the sample pictures I put. Just throw it in paint and draw some colored lines/arrows where you'd like things moved out and where to, or if you want it shortened/cut or anything like that, then you can just make notes using your colored arrows are references. Hopefully that way I can make the hair exactly as you'd want it, since I've got a habit of completely failing to understand descriptions. :D

It's a bit frustrating that most images only really capture one aspect of how it should look... I'm happy to do anything I can do to make your job easier. :)

You know, actually making hairs is easy. Provided you have the right software, all you need to do is Draw some Paths then file/stroke said Paths. The real skill comes in when you can take a reference and have enough visual coordination to recreate it at a slightly different angle or position, and keep it looking authentic. Most of what I do is simply outlining a reference image then making minor adjustments like scale/shape to match the SDT Template. That's probably why I have so many issues with 'half' reference shots, and fringes.

For the Tiara I'm thinking of using this image so you can clearly see it, the only thing is it will be mirrored (on the wrong side) to how it appears in the Anime, as Grimey once said though "I personally prefer a more recognisable import than a realistic one". That also means I can do a Tiara and Bumped version, hopefully.

Update:
I've attached an image of what I'm up to, I've got a few things I'm unsure about with the Tiara, so I'm calling it quits until I can get some feedback. Basically, for the top 'arm' of the Tiara, I've extended it to the back of her head and raised it slightly, if you see the Red Arrow, that's the roughly where it would be lowered to, and the red line is where I'd cut it back to to match some of the reference material more. I personally like it longer, as it seems to make the curves on it look better, but it's your call.

Also, I'm a little unsure about the positioning of the gem on her forehead. Because the SDT Template is very rounded, and Lafiel seems to have a more flat/square head in the anime, I'm having issues positioning the Gem at a suitable angle and height. What I could do is create a false forhead behind the Gem to bring it forward (see the green arrow), though that'll probably end up looking fairly obvious, and will cause problems trying to match skin codes, eyebrow movements, etc.

What are your thoughts? I'm actually pretty happy with it, but if you have any issues with it I'd rather fix them now.

TL;DR. There is no short version, read it! :P

 

[iMostlyJustLurk]

For the back, the only thing I would consider altering is making the tips curve a bit more. It seems to be pretty common theme in how she's drawn. Not quite as pronounced as in this reference (they went a bit overboard), but a little more curl at the tips. They seemed to add more curl as the series went on for whatever reason, so the earlier shots have her hair a little straighter.

As for the tiara, I think the gem is okay where it is. The way SDT angles the body slightly towards the viewer actually means you've pretty much got it lined up dead on where it is. As for the top tiara arm, I feel like the length is okay but it needs to be a bit more curved, like it's following the shape of her skull. All three prongs are the same length, so as long as it looks to be on par with the side prong it should be fine. She's usually drawn with a symmetrical one anyways so I wouldn't worry about left/right mirroring at all.

My OCD is forcing me to mention that the grey 3-prong tiara just has a grey front, instead of green like the gold 2-prong one. If I only had a healthy obsession with this character I probably wouldn't be here XD

PS Weeee.

 

[Shade]

For the back, the only thing I would consider altering is making the tips curve a bit more. It seems to be pretty common theme in how she's drawn. Not quite as pronounced as in this reference (they went a bit overboard), but a little more curl at the tips. They seemed to add more curl as the series went on for whatever reason, so the earlier shots have her hair a little straighter.

I can do that, when I've finished dealing with some other stuff I'll put together a few quick tip samples for you to pick from. I had noticed in some of the pictures her hair seemed to have a slight kick at the ends, though it never seem to be constant so I wasn't sure if it was an environment (wind, movement, etc) effect that I couldn't see in a still picture.

As for the tiara, I think the gem is okay where it is. The way SDT angles the body slightly towards the viewer actually means you've pretty much got it lined up dead on where it is. As for the top tiara arm, I feel like the length is okay but it needs to be a bit more curved, like it's following the shape of her skull. All three prongs are the same length, so as long as it looks to be on par with the side prong it should be fine. She's usually drawn with a symmetrical one anyways so I wouldn't worry about left/right mirroring at all.

Okay, I can curve out that flat bit. I'm not sure why its there, I had to move it at one point because it was too close to her right eyebrow, and I think I forgot to readjust it after that.

My OCD is forcing me to mention that the grey 3-prong tiara just has a grey front, instead of green like the gold 2-prong one. If I only had a healthy obsession with this character I probably wouldn't be here XD

OCD is fine, I realized that I was crossing the two different styles after I'd uploaded the preview and reviewed some of the references, but didn't want to save/edit/upload the image so I just left it. I'm not totally happy with the shape of center piece of the Tiara, it looks a little sharp and bottom heavy, so I may put a second step in there to soften and shorten it a bit as it appears in this image.

I think it's almost done, just need to do the side part in front of her ear and the adjustments mentioned above, then if you're all happy with the general shape/style, I'll start shadowing/highlighting/line detailing it.

One last thing, I'm currently using the code below which I've made by matching your reference images (though her skin may be slightly too light, I like light skin, sue me :P). Do you mind loading it and making any adjustments (If needed) so it fits you're 'ideal' version of her? Colors/shapes/etc often appear slightly different on different backgrounds and bodies, and I'd like to try get the balance of the hair perfect so it matches at least your settings.

charName:Lafiel;mood:Normal;bodyScale:1;arms:onhislegs;throatResist:50;hair:sdchan,1,1;iris:wide,98,62,29,1;breasts:70;skin:light;nose:normal;ear:elf;lipstick:0,0,0,0,0;eyeshadow:0,0,0,0;sclera:255,255,255,1;blush:196,80,77,0.35;freckles:60,24,24,0.8,0;mascara:0,0,0,1,20;nailpolish:0,0,0,0;eyebrow:normal,127,171,208,1,0,0,0,1;hairhsl:0,1,1,1;skinhsl:0,0.82,1.05,1;hisskinhsl:0,1,1,1;bg:3;hisSkin:0;hisPenis:1,1,1;balls:1,1;hisTop:none,153,0,6,1;hisBottoms:none,139,0,6,1;hisFootwear:none,0,0,0,1;collar:none,0,0,0,1,232,240,255,1;cuffs:none,0,0,0,1,171,177,185,1;gag:none,0,0,0,1;panties:none,255,255,255,1;top:none,255,255,255,1;armwear:none,0,0,0,1;legwear:none,0,0,0,1,0,0,0,1;footwear:none,0,0,0,1,32,32,32,1;eyewear:none,0,0,0,1;headwear:none,0,0,0,1,255,255,255,1;tonguePiercing:none,232,188,242,1

Notes for Self:
[hide]
Curved tips on tail.
Side hair part in front of ear.
[/hide]

Update:
New preview attached below, thoughts? The side part needs to be 'integrated' in to the rest of the hair, at the moment it's just on top so you can see the shape and position. The hair under that also needs to be styled so it's not a rough line. I think the spikes on the side need to be moved in closer and be made so they overlap slightly, and it might need to be lengthened so it's more level with her earlobe. Though the references seem to show it both above, middle and below the ear depending on the image, if she 'ages' throughout the anime, that's probably why.

Is the curve on the Tiara more subtle and less jagged like you wanted? I realized why the old preview had the straight section; apparently I deleted the path, so it never occurred to me to readjust it. At least redoing it was easy. Not thrilled with the mess I made of the middle of the Tiara either, I made the indented part a little too, erm, bulgy... I don't know, what's your view on it?

Also, pick your flick! The flick on the right is a question mark, so please don't pick that. :P The middle flick is one I saw on another hair, I think it's probably too sharp for what you want, though, I've got to admit, I'm not a huge fan of the other the one on the left either, it was a little bit rushed and I didn't want to make too many complicated adjustments on a sample sheet.

 

[Nigida]

I just knew someone would say something horrible like that! :P

What would you consider a middle ground though? I'll have to see what the OP says too, since it's technically his request. :D

I'm sorry, didn't mean to be such a bad critic. I just felt that there was too much hair in one of the pictures, while not enough on the other. But I no longer think that after looking at the newer references. It feels fine to me and the OP does a very good job with detailing his request. After all, he is the one with the unhealthy obsession, so he should know best. ;)

 

[Shade]

I'm sorry, didn't mean to be such a bad critic. I just felt that there was too much hair in one of the pictures, while not enough on the other. But I no longer think that after looking at the newer references. It feels fine to me and the OP does a very good job with detailing his request. After all, he is the one with the unhealthy obsession, so he should know best. ;)

Haha! No, you weren't a bad critic, when I was sitting there designing the paths I had this moment where I realized that the two were nothing a like, and making either like the other would require drawing a whole new path, rather than a few subtle adjustments. It was more my lack of flexibility/foresight when I first designed them that made the comment horrible, not the comment itself.

I've got to give props to the OP. Considering how much reference material he provided, and his obvious willingness to communicate about any details the references don't cover, I'm really surprised no one took this up sooner.

 

[iMostlyJustLurk]

Wow you've been busy.

I've tweaked the character code to the best of my ability. I /think/ it's pretty close, but like proofreading it's better to have someone else look over it. Here's the code

charName:Lafiel;mood:Normal;bodyScale:0.9975;arms:onlegs;throatResist:50;hair:chunli,;iris:sharp,69,60,69,1;breasts:52;skin:light;nose:normal;ear:elf;lipstick:0,0,0,0,0;eyeshadow:0,0,0,0;sclera:255,255,255,1;blush:0,0,0,0;freckles:60,24,24,0.8,0;mascara:0,0,0,0,20;nailpolish:255,255,255,0.075;eyebrow:normal,143,208,255,1,105,103,105,1;hairhsl:160,0.76,3.23,1.19;skinhsl:5,0.84,0.96,1.11;hisskinhsl:0,1,1,1;bg:3;hisSkin:0;hisPenis:1,1,1;balls:1,1;hisTop:none,153,0,6,1;hisBottoms:none,139,0,6,1;hisFootwear:none,0,0,0,1;collar:none,0,0,0,1,232,240,255,1;cuffs:none,0,0,0,1,171,177,185,1;gag:none,0,0,0,1;panties:none,255,255,255,1;top:none,255,255,255,1;armwear:none,0,0,0,1;legwear:none,0,0,0,1,0,0,0,1;footwear:none,0,0,0,1,32,32,32,1;eyewear:none,0,0,0,1;headwear:none,0,0,0,1,255,255,255,1;tonguePiercing:none,232,188,242,1

As for the flick, the first one is sortof in the right ballpark but it's really aggressive. This reference here is about what I have in mind
The rule seems to be that it's mainly the smaller "bundles" get the flick, so I wouldn't worry about adding in more than one flick like this. Just for flair I guess :P

As for nobody picking this up sooner... I think I just posted it at a bad time. Believe me, I had to sit on my hands hard to not break the rules by bumping when I saw activity pick up. ;^_^

 

[Shade]

Not too busy, there's still a fair bit of work to be done, and I've got some other stuff outside of SDT to deal with that's going to slow me down now. Just thought I'd let you know in case I don't appear for a day or two, I haven't forgotten or given up.

Okay, that reference should be perfect to use, I tried to make the three different flicks on the first sample different strengths, so I'll just make a more gentle and gradual. I take it you don't mind the side part in front of her ear? It's another one of those things that seems to be different in each image, some (like the most recent image) has lots of them, others have two or three. I personally rather less, as it makes the hair look less 'busy', but if you want a lot of them that's fine too; I think.

 

[iMostlyJustLurk]

Glad the new reference is useful! I really don't mind adding more references, it's an excuse to share more of my collection.

Fewer (bangs?) in front of the ear is fine.

Good luck with your other stuff, I'm looking forward to hammering out some more details when you get back!

 

[Shade]

Bangs! That's what they're called! That was bugging me...

Anyway, I snuck in that quick flick (though I'm not sure if I'm happy with the strand it's on, and you're probably going to tell me its in the wrong direction), as well as some adjustments to the bangs, and her hairline under the bangs. Most of the adjustments done for this sample have been done on duplicated layers, so I can easily undo them if you want something different.

So, basically, what are your thoughts on the bangs, hairline under the bangs, and the shape of the flick, and the strand its on?

I also think everything has been finished now, so when we work out the three things above I'll start shadowing, unless you can see/spot anything that you'd like changed?

 

[iMostlyJustLurk]

Heh, I wasn't expecting you to be back at it so soon.

For the bangs, they definitely look better stopping before the ear. If you feel like playing with them some more, they could be a bit narrower and spaced a bit closer together (ie. more in the same space)... anywhere in the 4-6 range would be good, but if you feel like leaving it at 3 I'm happy to defer to your artistic license. :)

The flick is great! Just point the curve other way (you called that one... much more time in this thread and you won't even need me :P) and it can live right where it is.

 

[Shade]

Very quick update, turned the flick around, kept it looking the same, but now the hue empty space behind it annoys me, what are your thoughts? Also added more bangs and made them narrower. I wouldn't go anymore than four, as the narrower and closer together they get the 'dirtier' the lines get, and the harder they become to shadow. I made the bangs a bit uneven too, to give it more 'realistic' look.

I was toying with the idea of extending the line that connects the third and fourth to make it higher than the line joining the second and third (assuming first is on the left on the screen), but ran out of time before I got to try it. What are your thoughts?

I do like how she looks with four bangs a lot more than with just three. Funny how that works...

 

[zzaapp002]

Looking good so far man!

 

[iMostlyJustLurk]

I'd have to see what you're thinking about the bang lines to offer any real feedback, but I have to say the four bangs look really good.

I think the flick would be okay if you reduced the angle on the strand it starts from so it's closer to the rest of the tail. That would help control the space in there a bit.

This is really starting to come together. :D

 

[Shade]

Stuff! I've totally forgot what I did, well, besides the shadows...

I think I adjusted the flick...

And something else in that picture I just can't spot...

Anyway, thoughts?