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Kampfer School Uniform

Discussion in 'SDT Requests' started by gbm, Sep 22, 2015.

  1. gbm

    gbm Potential Patron

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    Hey. Somebody's already made hairs for the Kampfer girls (http://www.sdtmods.com/index.php?topic=1477), but I was wondering if anyone could make their school uniform as well?
    A lot of the components are similar to already existing SDT clothing, so as suggested I'm going to list ideal priorities below

    If only one thing gets made, ideally it'd be the sailor collar (with necktie, assuming it takes up the spot of the collar accessory). Because of the length, I was told it might cause clipping issues and other problems - feel free to modify the design for simplicity as you wish, as long as it has the iconic stripe design and neck thing I'm happy. If you don't make a tie for the design, don't worry about the layering issue using the default tie might cause.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    The easiest things to make and next most wanted are the striped trouser leg and the bracelet.

    Trouser Leg:
    [​IMG]
    Bracelet:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    If you do the bracelet, could you also supply a red bracelet?
    [​IMG]
    (last picture shown purely for palette display)

    The skirt and shoes are already fine, but my last request is the shirt.
    I know it's a long shot because of how complicated it is (it's essentially two shirts in one) but this is here if you want a challenge.

    [​IMG]
    (ordinary colouring is just white/black)
    On the off chance you do the shirt, could I also get the palette swapped black version shown below?
    [​IMG]
     
  2. stuntcock

    stuntcock Club Regular Staff Member Moderator

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    Costumes usually require more work, unless you're going for a flat-color implementation (which looks out-of-place alongside toned skin and shaded hair).

    Then you add in layering concerns (e.g. "does the blouse tuck into the waistband?" "do the jeans fit over the boots?"), RGB shifting, breast slider support, mod intercompatibility, costume physics ... it can become very time-consuming.

    And SDT is fundamentally a porn game. You can spend hours on a costume project, but you're constantly being tormented by a little voice that says: "most players are going to load the costume, admire it for five seconds, and then strip the girl naked." Hair mods (and code mods) tend to feel more "productive" because they remain relevant thoughout a gameplay session.

    Nice work on the high-resolution screenshots. I do have a few nitpicks, though:
    • the images are attached to your post.
      • according to the guidelines, you should instead upload them to an imagehost (such as postimage) and then use BBCode to include links or thumbnails.
      • attached images are inconvenient, because they have only two sizes ("uselessly small thumbnail" or "full image which requires horizontal scrolling")
    • the reference images are animation frames, and therefore the clothing design is simplified.
      • note that the images show hard-edged boundaries between bright and dark fills on the clothes -- instead of the soft gradient shading effects which you tend to see on SDT clothing.
      • it would be helpful to include a few high-detail still images - from fanart, promotional materials, character reference guides, official artbooks, etc...
      • still images will tend to include fancier fabric details (creases, tension lines) and shading.
      • the SDT modder might use the simplified costume design, in order to keep the project quick and easy. But if he decides to go fancy, then you've saved him the trouble of tracking down additional images.
      • even if he decides to stick with the simplified artwork, high-detail images may help to clarify fitting details (e.g. tightness of the blouse around the shoulders).
    • the top is asymmetric
      • the visually-interesting aspects (the double-breasting and the button/clasp) are on the hidden side.
      • if you want these details to be visible then you must say so. Otherwise modders will use the right-side view of the costume, so that the mod remains authentic to the original designs.
    • the costume includes a lot of pieces and variations
      • sailor collar w/ necktie, short-sleeved blouse, long-sleeved blouse (or maybe it's a V-neck jacket worn over the blouse?), striped turtle-neck undershirt, plain short-sleeve undershirt, striped leggings, pleated skirt (various colors), and loafers. And I've probably missed a few.
      • it would be helpful to organize your request into categories, and assign a preference or priority to each item. For example, I would put the shoes and skirt at low or zero priority because the vanilla SDT items are a close match -- but you might feel differently.
      • for each item, you can indicate whether you're looking for a single color pattern, specific color variants (e.g. black, purple, white), or full RGB support.
      • once you've organized the request, you can select reference images which focus on each of your high-priority items. Hence, you can avoid the miscommunication and confusion (e.g. regarding sleeve length, color combinations, etc) which arise when posting a bunch of reference images side-by-side.
      • if you're feeling ambitious, then you can post an SDT screenshot (and/or charcode) showing a crude copy of the costume made from existing components ... and then post add some red-pen scribbles to illustrate how it's insufficient (e.g. blouse is wrong, skirt is too short, leggings aren't striped, shoes aren't shiny enough, etc).
      • a well-organized request is more approachable. If it's clearly divided into components then a modder might be willing to tackle one of them (instead of thinking "the full request would take 10+ hours; that's too much work; I'm out")
    • the sailor collar is tricky
      • each element of SDT clothing is drawn on a specific layer, which is rigged to a specific bodypart (such as "right breast", "neck", "left thigh", etc)
      • if you want the sailor collar to follow breast motion (and/or breast slider changes) while remaining attached to the neck, then it needs costume physics. This increases the difficulty of the task, and introduces a dependency on the Loader.
      • if you don't want to include costume physics, then you'd probably need to alter the design. Perhaps the front half of the collar could be shortened so that its immobility (w/r/t the breasts) would not cause obvious clipping effects. Or perhaps it should just be omitted altogether.
     
  3. gbm

    gbm Potential Patron

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    Thanks for your quick reply - I'm new to the forum so this was really helpful.
    I figured outfits would be much more difficult to do than the hair - thanks for elaborating on why.

    Sorry about the attachments - I'll edit with postimage. I went with animation frames and omitted other resources because I thought they included all necessary design information and there's very little official art (or good fanart) where the uniform is even worn, let alone displayed at a side angle. In future, should I include a non-animated picture regardless of a good perspective just to make sure nothing's missing?

    True enough - I'm new to SDT modding in general so I haven't really experimented with it much, but I can see where you're coming from. I'll prioritise the pieces when I've finished this reply. Thanks for the advice.

    Not gonna lie, I don't particularly understand the specifics but I'll take your word for it. I'm fine with adding a note about altering the collar for convenience' sake & to avoid clipping. I kinda want to keep the collar even if it's altered just because it's the most distinguishing part of the uniform design.

    Thanks again for your reply, I appreciate it a lot.
     
  4. aztlan

    aztlan Swell Supporter

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    The 2nd (and maybe 1st) of these might make for good backgrounds...
     
  5. BrokenToaster

    BrokenToaster Casual Client Content Creator

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    Hey gbm,

    I made a seifuku top that is similar to, but not exactly the same as the ones pictured. Let me know if its something you'd like me to tweek a little. If so I'll try and get around to it when I get a chance.

    Check out my mods here: http://www.sdtmods.com/index.php?topic=4997.0
     
  6. stuntcock

    stuntcock Club Regular Staff Member Moderator

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    You've included only IMG tags. You should also be using URL tags to link to the full-size images, because 360px is a poor resolution for modding work. PostImage provides BBCode snippets which contain nested tags; you can just copy-paste the whole thing into your post.

    You've categorized the request a bit, but some of the specific details are unclear.

    "as long as it has the iconic stripe design and neck thing I'm happy"
    What is the neck thing? If you don't know the proper names for clothing elements, then you can describe them by reference to anatomy (e.g. "the tapered bit in the front that covers the cleavage" or "the middle part that lies across the collarbone" or "the long flappy thing in the back behind her shoulderblades"). Or just upload a second copy of your reference image, with a bunch of highlights and scribbles to show which parts you're talking about.

    "it's essentially two shirts in one"
    What does this even mean? The screenshot below isn't clear, because the left-hand girl seems to be wearing a short-sleeved tracksuit under her school costume, while the righ-hand girl is wearing a long-sleeve jumper. So "two shirts in one" could refer to "short and long sleeve versions of the top" or it could mean "just the short sleeve version, but it should include an optional undershirt." Or it might be something else entirely.

    Also - several of your reference images show the left side of the shirt (with the triangular double-breasting and button). If you don't intend for the mod to show this side of the garment, then please say so clearly. Or you could crop down your images to remove any extraneous stuff, but that's probably overkill.

    I'll use the Seifuku mod to illustrate.

    BrokenToaster classified the entire outfit as a TOP. None of its elements are removable or detachable; the sailor collar is a permanent part of the shirt. In terms of design and modding, this decision saves time (since we don't need to draw the parts of the shirt which lie "underneath" the collar"). In terms of gameplay, it means that the "Collar" slot is left free for use by other mods.

    The sailor collar is drawn on the BACK layer. Hence, it is rigged to the spine only. Abdominal movement (e.g. breathing) has no effect on it, nor does movement of the head and neck. Repositioning of the arms and shoulders will not cause any change in the appearance of the collar, although the right arm can partially occult the collar in some positions. Changes in breast size and breast position have no effect on the collar. You can imagine it as a solid piece of metal which is welded onto her back.

    [​IMG]

    As long as we're dealing with small-to-medium breasts, this is fine. BrokenToaster drew the collar so that it would appear reasonable in this context. In fact, the only visible flaw is a very minor layering issue -- the bow appears in front of the right breast, whereas it would ideally appear in between the breasts. This does not indicate a mistake by the modder; it's simply a limitation of the vanilla import system.


    [​IMG]

    At either extreme of the size slider, visual flaws become apparent. With small breasts, the collar and bow extend outwards into empty space. Ideally, these elements would automatically be shortened and pulled inward towards the ribcage (as indicated by the red arrow). With large breasts, the collar seems too short -- it ought to stretch much further outwards. Imagine that BrokenToaster's bow was replaced by a loose necktie (as in the Kampfer costume design). We would want this necktie to originate near the nipples and droop down into empty space, rather than originating at the sternum and drooping down towards the solar plexus. In this particular case, the necktie would simply vanish between the giant breasts and remain invisible. Not ideal.


    [​IMG]

    Because the collar is rigged to the spine, it does not respond to changes in breast size. It also ignores breast motion. We've seen that the "static" collar looks fairly reasonable with small-to-medium breasts ... but flaws appear when the girl begins to move. It quickly becomes apparent that the collar is entirely rigid. It ought to bounce around as she moves, but it does not.



    If you want the sailor collar to have high visual fidelity, then it would need to be a Loader mod with costume physics.
    • it could span several layers instead of being drawn entirely on a single layer
    • the front portion could be rigged to the breasts so that it can stretch and bounce with them
    • the rear portion could be unrigged so that it would twist and flutter like a miniature cape as the girl moves (instead of remaining perfectly rigid w/r/t her spine)
    • the necktie could be unrigged so that it would swing and flutter between/below the girl's breasts as she moves (similar to the existing Leash mods)
    • the various elements would need special scripting in order to ensure that they all inherit the correct RGB slider settings
      • technically, you've asked for only two color variants. But it would be fairly easy to include full RGB support, so there's no reason not to do so.
    • the necktie itself could automatically be shortened or lengthened based on the breast slider, so that it retains approximately the same proportions as shown in the reference images