1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Activision doesn't like female leads?

Discussion in 'Ryona' started by detritus, Aug 22, 2010.

  1. detritus

    detritus angry angry Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2009
    Messages:
    998
    Likes Received:
    119
    I just found this article
    Code:
    http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/29719/InDepth_No_Female_Heroes_At_Activision.php
    The article is about how the next game in the True Crime series was originally supposed to be a standalone game called Black Lotus with a Lucy Liu-ish assassin protagonist until Activision told the developers to ditch her and reform the project.

    I think the writer of the article does a good job of explaining why their thought process of how games with female leads don't do well financially is a load of shit.

    What do you guys think of this? Obviously I disagree with Activision and any other game publisher that forces developers to take playable female characters out of a game. They're ruining our potential ryona damnit. >:o
     
  2. snyperhacker

    snyperhacker Avid Affiliate Ryonani Teamster

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2010
    Messages:
    186
    Likes Received:
    14
    Well... Wet, Bayonetta, Velvet Assassin, No One Lives Forever, etc etc the list is realllly long... but I think they are unable to comprehend the fact that these games bombed not because of the female lead, but because their gameplay just plain sucked donkey ass... Right now, if I imagine playing the Hitman series with a female lead, i'm pretty sure it'll be as much fun because at the end of the day, the gameplay will still be the same (which was really awesome...) If anyone takes a peak at the forums for Borderlands (which is a highly successful and fast-selling game), you'll find out that a majority of the players prefer choosing the female character (called the Siren) out of a choice of 4 available playable characters (including 3 male characters), and it's only because the makers of the game have made the female character virtually invincible and playing with that character makes gameplay a little easier (at the final levels) and a hell lot of fun. But Velvet Assassin (female WWII'ish Sam Fisher)and No One Lives Forever (female James Bond)... those games were really really really crap...
    I still remember playing (and really enjoying) the first-ever female lead game called "Jill of the Jungle" just because the game mechanics were wayyy ahead of its time... don't know about the rest of the gaming world... The whole 'female lead doesn't work well' or 'female lead doesn't sell games' thing is a load of crap.. The only thing that doesn't sell games is crap gameplay or crap game mechanics.
     
  3. Black Lion

    Black Lion Swell Supporter Ryonani Teamster

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2009
    Messages:
    556
    Likes Received:
    79
    One of the problems of many female led games is too focus on the sexuality of the character. Not all of them, but a lot of them do. Bulletwitch is a great example. It had a lot of potential, but lacked. Alicia, though, is very sexy. Stolen is another great example. That was a very bad game, and you can tell that the developers wanted the game to sell through sex appeal. Of course, I do want female protagonists, but the games need more focus on better gameplay.
     
  4. detritus

    detritus angry angry Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2009
    Messages:
    998
    Likes Received:
    119
    Fuckin' word. And this whole theory of guys needing to play a male character to get into the game is also a load of crap. In any game where gender is selectable like Bioware games, pretty much all of my friends play through as a female first. Sex does sell, but trust me if a game is shit I'm not going to tell my friends I bought it. If Mass Effect sucked ass, my friends and I would not have talked about how awesome fem. Shepard was and giggle about the lesbian alien sex scene. I would honestly not want to admit to anyone in real life that I paid money for an obviously oversexed game that was otherwise mediocre or garbage. Bayonetta and Wet being prime examples.
     
  5. 90sSegaFan

    90sSegaFan Vivacious Visitor Ryonani Teamster

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2009
    Messages:
    88
    Likes Received:
    33
    Well let's look at that list you provided:

    Bayonetta = 90
    Wet = 70
    Velvet Assassin = 56
    No One Lives Forever = 91

    So one of those games actually got bad reviews. That point is not a great one to make to back up your argument. Poor marketing and timing is more to blame than any of them.

    Case in point, the Tomb Raider series. They sold them on Lara's sexuality, the games were great (especially the last two) but the marketing was there. These days it's all about the marketing, when done right you get a game like Red Dead. When you do it wrong you get a game like Alan Wake.
     
  6. weediscool

    weediscool Avid Affiliate Ryonani Teamster

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2009
    Messages:
    115
    Likes Received:
    7
    sexuality is a wild card, bayonetta is a one million unit seller, however on top is a devil may cry style gameplay and a good difficulty, it attracts a crowd, particularly those who also enjoyed God Hand (an undersold game unfortunately) so good for them (platinum games). However sexuality alone isn't a seller, velvet assassin and wet are prime examples, you really need a good mix.
     
  7. sparky

    sparky Vivacious Visitor Ryonani Teamster

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2009
    Messages:
    61
    Likes Received:
    1
    Bayonetta a bad game??? Are you on crack? People are entitled to there opinions, but in this case it's wrong. Also, the fact that Bayonetta got solid reviews across all web sites and magazines and went platinum beg to differ. All the other games you mentioned are crap though.
     
  8. noice1

    noice1 Avid Affiliate

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2010
    Messages:
    619
    Likes Received:
    0
    Smells like BS. Tomb Raider, Perfect Dark, Metroid say hello.

    What buffoons running that company. I also detest the idea that female leads hurt sales or that guys don't want to play female characters. What a load of crap. We love to play beautiful, strong girls and watch them do everything. If there's any hate to throw around, it's the way these leads are often objectified and excessively sexed, but that comes from having the industry dominated by males, where that sells.
     
  9. Ryooo123456

    Ryooo123456 Potential Patron Ryonani Teamster

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2010
    Messages:
    97
    Likes Received:
    0
    Pretty much Every Resident Evil game has a Female lead character... but you have to choose to play male or female in most..
    RE0 - Rebecca (you play the whole game as her)
    RE1 - Jill ( again whole game)
    RE2 - Claire (again but 2 modes)
    RE3 - Jill ( No other character)
    RECV - Claire
    REOB - Lots of girls in outbreak
    REDA - Dead aim has a girl (never played it)
    RE5 - Sheva ( although you have to beat the game to play as her she still counts)

    tell me they didn't make a lot of money ;)
     
  10. detritus

    detritus angry angry Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2009
    Messages:
    998
    Likes Received:
    119
    I did say "mediocre or garbage" and sorry but Bayonetta wasn't a particularly original game. It was essentially DMC in all aspects except the very superficial characters and possibly even worse dialogue. Maybe the overly cheesy plot and dialogue was part of the franchise in the same way Snakes on a Plane was meant to be a terrible B film, I don't know but honestly it didn't make me care enough to ever find out. It was also painfully obvious on how much they were riding on Bayonetta's character design in their marketing. I wanted to enjoy the game through the five levels of mindless button mashing instant gratification I clawed my way through, but ultimately I just didn't find it entertaining. I didn't say the game was terrible or that anybody who enjoyed playing it is clearly a fuckstick, but to say that it's indisputably good based solely on units sold and web reviews isn't any more deluded than how much you think I am.

    Most game reviewers thought Halo was a ground breaking FPS when in reality it was just about the slowest paced FPS known to existence backed with a bland plot and a one dimensional lead character that looked more suited to tear up a motocross track than fight off a swarm of alien invaders. While I say that, I know I've spent more time playing Halo than any other game on Xbox and I admit multiplayer with friends was plenty fun. You don't have to be either a rabid fan boy or a baseless hater. So chill out, I have my opinions and I have reasons that hold merit for those opinions.

    Back on the topic. I don't know why they're expecting to see a game with a single female lead in the top 5. There is at most one game a year with a solo female lead, developed/published by a major company that gets sufficient marketing to make it even a moderate success. Then they generally run into marketing issues either because they tried to slut up the character too much or she's way too blood thirsty. Of course they end up backing down because they don't want tangle with legal issues. I think this is largely an issue of marketing departments not understanding how to find a target audience for female leads, or how to keep the horny guy gamer crowd happy without relying on huge cleavage and maximum skin on display. This was pretty much the problem with Beyond Good & Evil. Ubisoft admitted to not knowing who the hell to market the game to at the time. I suppose if you look at the main character, Jade, you can understand why. I don't recall any sexual humor or even a romantic interest for her character although it's been a awhile since I've played it.

    [​IMG]
    I still regularly see it as one of the first suggestions for young girl gamers, just behind the Tomb Raider series and Metroid.
     
  11. EvilDraconis

    EvilDraconis Avid Affiliate Ryonani Teamster

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2009
    Messages:
    185
    Likes Received:
    7
    To say a game with a female lead can't succeed is laughable. Activision is retarded. Hello Perfect Dark, you came out 10 years ago and you were re-released recently because of you're still the best FPS ever.

    Also this. Halo has always been extremely average of an FPS. It's just at the time of its release, no other shooter released on the new gen systems were anything short of complete ass. It got lucky, and now every 14 year old who proceeds to t-bag someone he kills and manages to get killed two seconds later is going to buy anything they release and keep the games coming. Kind of like Modern Warfare 2.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 23, 2010
  12. keeblerelf

    keeblerelf Guest

    Outside of custom-characters (Fallout 3, Fable 2, etc.) and fighting games, there's what, Heavenly Sword, Mirror's Edge, the New Golden Axe...

    Yeah.

    UBIsoft found a way for it to work with the witty princess in Prince of Persia: Sands of Time... which they promptly threw out the window with POP2: Warrior Within.

    On a side note, even though it's a beat'em up / fighting game, Scott Pilgrim: the Game rocks.

    That's because marketing departments are usually clueless overall. Much like the original True Crime example, it's much easier to just copy trends than try to get lucky making one. They released the game along with PoP -- both were similar games, both were also under-marketed. When PoP began winning awards, it got the "game of the year" ad blitz. If BG&E had something like that, where it was the "next stealth game" ala MGS, things might have been slightly different. (We might have actually gotten a conclusion to the DOMZ storyline!)

    Tomb Raider? Eugh.
    I'd rather suggest "Every Witch Way" (GBA) or "Shantae" (GBC).
     
  13. noice1

    noice1 Avid Affiliate

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2010
    Messages:
    619
    Likes Received:
    0
    Actually in RE1 you can play as Chris Redfield, but, yeah I would argue Jill is the main character of the whole series. Overall, it's very female-heavy, but I can't comment on any but 1-3. Also in RE3, you do play as Jill for the main game but there is a Mercenaries challenge mode where you play as any of the 3 male leads. Still, good point as I should have mentioned the RE series, when I've currently been playing it. :want:

    Also, Clanssd, I agree about Halo. Extremely overrated.
     
  14. LamiaMoonwing

    LamiaMoonwing Potential Patron

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2015
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    0
    This is only plainfull sexism and ignorance.

    Think at all the game we can choose the gender.
    Or at all the game we can play woman and that sell well.

    BUT they can be right in a way.

    In game, woman are often sluty. Bikini chain mail, and when they are the bad girl, they are ULTRA sexualised.
    I am a woman, i enjoy to play woman in video game ..and man.

    Byonata,a sexist game (the player "avatar" is a total slut Oo) . BUT this a good game, well that what a lot of people tell me.

    BUT i just don't want to play it, because the main character is a stereotype. Negative one. Because of this i feel the game will suck. No originality. Think they hide the flaw behind boobs, ect.

    Create nice looking woman don't mean create slut.
    Create a strong woman don't mean she need to be a lesbien XD.

    Create nice woman character and the game will sell well .if the game is good.
    Go the easy way and create the slut number 10 382 and well..yeah.
     
  15. Boundy22

    Boundy22 Swell Supporter Ryonani Teamster

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2012
    Messages:
    445
    Likes Received:
    28
    Wow , the industry had changed a lot since that topic regarding playable female characters

    Major AAA series like COD , Assassin creed , Metal gear and even fifa :D had been promoted from males only games into having the option to play as a female , the biggest major sony exclusive beside uncharted "Horizon" is having a main female character

    Things started to change little better
     
  16. LamiaMoonwing

    LamiaMoonwing Potential Patron

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2015
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    0
    True, thing reaaaally improve despite of the resistance of some gamergate guy XD.

    And now woman in video game are less and less "chain mail bikini" style *feel happy*